[sciencegirl]

What about if people stopped eating meat and converted to vegetarianism. How much more food would we be able to grow ? Could that solve the food problem, at least for a few years.

[RainShadow]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', 'N')obody ever said Americans were in trouble.

[VMarcHart]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sciencegirl', 'W')hat about if people stopped eating meat and converted to vegetarianism. How much more food would we be able to grow?

[yesplease]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', 'Y')eah big excess


Math help online

[Mominator]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', '1'). The United States is the world's largest food exporter by a huge margin. . . .
2. The US is attacked at the UN every year because it produces too much food. . . .Basically, I'm not worried. I'm so not worried about it that I'm literally betting my life on it by ignoring the advice to run off to the countryside and start a farm.

[Mominator]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', '
')
Yes people will be starving around the globe while I am still throwing away unwanted portions from McDonalds. Last Time I checked there is no way to transport that food without spoiling it..

[Denny]

The United States is the Saudi Arabia of agriculture. In fact, in economic terms as food goes up in price, its one compensating factor in the world economy favoring the U.S.

As others have written, grain prices will have the balancing factor of substitution away from livstock feed as the prices grow. Look to more grass fed beef and even lamb in the meat diet.

I feel the worst thing that will affect the American consumer from high prices may be a trend away from excess meat consumption. And, that will be a blessing in disguise.

[mobil1]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Denny', 'T')he United States is the Saudi Arabia of agriculture. In fact, in economic terms as food goes up in price, its one compensating factor in the world economy favoring the U.S.

[wisconsin_cur]

yesplease,

greed, apathy as well as tribalism are part of the human condition. For the species as a whole there is no getting away from them so they must be part of our calculations. Pretending they are fungible, or worse yet negotiable, is fantasy and delays the interaction with reality that is needed.

Tribalism will reappear with a vengeance. We will not only not care that others are starving we will assume that they deserved it for either secular (they don't work hard enough or are not as smart as us) or religious (God is punishing them) rationales.

At the same time the causes of our own suffering, whatever it may be, will be externalized (they are doing this to us).

Of course we see these very attitudes in evidence on this board everyday, you do not need to travel very far. Perhaps you hear it at your Thanksgiving table or perhaps when you sit at the local diner.

You, I and St. Francis may be moved by altruism and love, but the Crusade finds more willing hearts than the call to poverty and selflessness. As individuals we do not need to be conformed to the realities around us, but we must come to grips with the realities.

[VMarcHart]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', 'S')ure, we can't transport leftover hamburgers to Africa

[droper]

um first world not a big problem, third world really big problem. You'd be surprised how little food you can live on third worlds already there so they dont have wiggle room like we do.

[cube]

3rd world


1st world


Maybe pictures will get my point across.
The 3rd world will collapse.
The 1st world can afford to lose a little bit of weight.

[yesplease]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', 'Y')ou, I and St. Francis may be moved by altruism and love, but the Crusade finds more willing hearts than the call to poverty and selflessness. As individuals we do not need to be conformed to the realities around us, but we must come to grips with the realities.

[dohboi]

wcur, you seem to be advocating a lot of gripping of reality lately.

There are a number of kinds of reality--the reality that the sun will eventually die, the reality that resources have limits, the reality that gw is beginning to pass crucial tipping points...

Compared to these hard realities, any statement about human behavior as "reality" is comparatively soft.

Humans can and have changed very basic aspects of their behavior fairly consistently. In the fifties, the US was know throughout the world as a deeply racist society. Today, while deep institutional and individual racism continues of course, the leading candidate for president is what most would consider Black. Now fifty, even twenty, years ago, most people said that wanting a Black president was just not accepting political reality. Yet this type of "reality" did change, but it took a whole lot of people willing to imagine themselves past it.

On a more ridiculous level, a couple years back tens of thousands of people quite suddenly and for the flimsiest of reasons gave up what had been considered "the staff of life" for thousands of years by their culture--it was called the Atkins diet. Sure it didn't last long, but if it were reinforced in positive ways, it may have (not that I think it was a very good idea). Such examples could be multiplied many times.

Don't get me wrong. I think it is extremely unlikely that globally people will make the changes necessary to avert the worst consequences of PO, and let's not even start on GW. But reality has many different meanings, and its meaning is shakiest when discussing human behavior.

Tyler, how much of US food production, transportation, and processing is currently dependent on fossil fuels? (hint--a lot)

The economics of food is so out of wack on so many levels, its hard to say anymore which element is the most destructive and distorting. What will happen to that crazy system as oil price continue to spiral ever higher is impossible to know exactly, but it is not likely to be pretty.

Moving massively to more local, non-pesticide dependent, lower-on-the-food-chain foods may help soften the blows to come, as well as having a variety of other benefits. But at this point, the change is already upon us, and most "adjustments" are likely going to be forced by circumstances rather than chosen by moral or other suasion.

[VMarcHart]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', 'M')aybe pictures will get my point across.
The 3rd world will collapse.
The 1st world can afford to lose a little bit of weight.

[SoylentGreen]

you guys really need to see the ultimate future shock flick "Soylent Green" circa early 70's

[Hagakure_Leofman]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SoylentGreen', 'y')ou guys really need to see the ultimate future shock flick "Soylent Green" circa early 70's

[Hagakure_Leofman]

Ecuador seem the happiest

[cube]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('VMarcHart', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', 'M')aybe pictures will get my point across.
The 3rd world will collapse.
The 1st world can afford to lose a little bit of weight.

[wisconsin_cur]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dohboi', 'w')cur, you seem to be advocating a lot of gripping of reality lately.

There are a number of kinds of reality--the reality that the sun will eventually die, the reality that resources have limits, the reality that gw is beginning to pass crucial tipping points...

Compared to these hard realities, any statement about human behavior as "reality" is comparatively soft.

Humans can and have changed very basic aspects of their behavior fairly consistently. In the fifties, the US was know throughout the world as a deeply racist society. Today, while deep institutional and individual racism continues of course, the leading candidate for president is what most would consider Black. Now fifty, even twenty, years ago, most people said that wanting a Black president was just not accepting political reality. Yet this type of "reality" did change, but it took a whole lot of people willing to imagine themselves past it.


...

But reality has many different meanings, and its meaning is shakiest when discussing human behavior.