[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eastbay', '
')Based on my recent experience, I strongly suspect it's going to take much more than US$ 6.00/g to get people to significantly move away from personal ICE transport.

[Revi]

When faced with the choice between gas and food, it seems like most people pick the gas. There was a bit on the news about a guy who was getting food at the food bank because he had to spend his paycheck on gas.

At least there was a food bank to get it from.

It's getting wierd out there.

[thuja]

My guess is that 5-6$/gallon will cause truckers to strike. That combined with high food prices and other escalating costs will lead to food and fuel shortages such as we are seeing in Europe.

Depends what you mean by pani anc chaos though. If you mean, massive social unrest, civil breakdown in most populated centers, etc...I'd say 10$/gallon plus associated high food costs would do that.

At that point there just won't be enough to go around...

[TreebeardsUncle]

Ok.
Gas is running close to $5/gallon in much of California now and it has not had much of an impact. $6/gallon won't either. Folks are still expecting airports to expand. Keep an eye on the recreational boaters though. Almost none of that traffic is a function of anything needed.

G

[SolarDave]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TreebeardsUncle', 'O')k.
Gas is running close to $5/gallon in much of California now and it has not had much of an impact. $6/gallon won't either. Folks are still expecting airports to expand. Keep an eye on the recreational boaters though. Almost none of that traffic is a function of anything needed.

G

[MrBill]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ROCKMAN', '
')Off the topic a little but - I have seen an interesting story regarding Mass. or Mich. : mandatory health care coverage provided by the individual and if one fails to acquire coverage (unless fitting one of the exemptions) they a fined. As much as this goes against my basic libertarian nature there are times when it's best for society that the gov't apply "force". Another example would be the requirement of flood ins. for those building in the flood plain.

[eastbay]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('thuja', 'M')y guess is that 5-6$/gallon will cause truckers to strike. That combined with high food prices and other escalating costs will lead to food and fuel shortages such as we are seeing in Europe.

Depends what you mean by pani anc chaos though. If you mean, massive social unrest, civil breakdown in most populated centers, etc...I'd say 10$/gallon plus associated high food costs would do that.

At that point there just won't be enough to go around...

[Heineken]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBill', 'H')eineken wrote:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')uh, Mr. Bill? The idea behind universal health care is that everyone gets care---at least some basic care. So then it doesn't matter if you're Tiger Woods or not. You can get your broken leg set without second-mortgaging the house.

[MrBill]

Well, nothing against Threadbear personally, but she is an example of someone drawing benefits from a system that she has not fully paid into. The problem of open systems where benefits are paid out regardless of how much is paid in. It is simply unsustainable over time. I do not expect you to have a different view based on your own personal situation. I truly wish this was not an issue for either of us. However, good public policy cannot be based on immediate need with no calculation of its long-term cost. Unfortunately, the reverse is true. We make it true because we wish it were true. And when we wish upon a star...

[ROCKMAN]

eastbay et al,

One aspect of the trucker's anger I have difficulty understanding. I can see their frustration if they are hauling on a contract that doesn't allow adjustments in their rates to offset increased fuel costs. But if they are free to raise their rates to compensate for increasing fuel pricest then the extra costs are passed along to the consumer...as well it should.

Perhaps a big stumbling block is the inability of independent truckers to raise their rates because the big trucking firms have locked in lower fuel costs through the futures market. For five years Southwest Aitrlines had a tremendous advantage over the other airlines. Some clever and gutsy fellow there made a big bet of jet fuel futures. Had JF gone down in price it would have cut them deep. But it didn't and the rest is history.

[wisconsin_cur]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ROCKMAN', 'e')astbay et al,

One aspect of the trucker's anger I have difficulty understanding. I can see their frustration if they are hauling on a contract that doesn't allow adjustments in their rates to offset increased fuel costs. But if they are free to raise their rates to compensate for increasing fuel pricest then the extra costs are passed along to the consumer...as well it should.

Perhaps a big stumbling block is the inability of independent truckers to raise their rates because the big trucking firms have locked in lower fuel costs through the futures market. For five years Southwest Aitrlines had a tremendous advantage over the other airlines. Some clever and gutsy fellow there made a big bet of jet fuel futures. Had JF gone down in price it would have cut them deep. But it didn't and the rest is history.

[MrBill]

We should ask Drew or someone more familiar, but in general we are talking about fixed and variable costs.

In the long-run fixed costs have to be covered including paying for depreciation on the truck, saving to buy a new one and a return on the cost of capital.

In the short-run the independent is more concerned about covering the cost of their fuel and keeping the rig running in order to make bank payments.

Similiar to GM or Ford churning-out vehicles at a loss. They are covering their variable costs, but not their fixed costs of plant and long-term cost of capital.

It is an accounting loss versus a cash flow one in the short-term.

[Cashmere]

The wiki article on Canadian health care is revealing.

2.2 doctors per 1,000 people. Average in 1st world is 3.

Several great stories about famous Canadians who came to the U.S. and paid out of pocket because they couldn't get the care in Canada, including a liberal politician who was ardently against a two-tier system. Until she needed breast surgery, then all of her liberal ideology went out the window and she used her wealth to go to another country to get her surgery.

Classic example.

Average wait time for MRI is off the charts.

[thuja]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eastbay', '
')

Truckers in the USA are very unorganized and will not be able to conduct an effective strike any time soon. They are (lol) 'independent-minded' and think they are not in need of a representative organization.

[cube]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('thuja', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eastbay', '
')

Truckers in the USA are very unorganized and will not be able to conduct an effective strike any time soon. They are (lol) 'independent-minded' and think they are not in need of a representative organization.

[thuja]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('thuja', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eastbay', '
')

Truckers in the USA are very unorganized and will not be able to conduct an effective strike any time soon. They are (lol) 'independent-minded' and think they are not in need of a representative organization.

[Ludi]

What would a trucker strike accomplish except screwing things up more?

[wisconsin_cur]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'W')hat would a trucker strike accomplish except screwing things up more?

[thuja]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'W')hat would a trucker strike accomplish except screwing things up more?

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBill', 'W')ell, nothing against Threadbear personally, but she is an example of someone drawing benefits from a system that she has not fully paid into. .