[seahorse]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mrobert', 'I') pay 1 Euro for milk. And around $5 a gallon. Still ... no riots in sight.

[mrobert]

I don't say we don't have issues, or everything is fine. But come on ... let's not exagerate.

Yes, some poor people will bad because they can't consume 5 gallons to drive some tank to a mall to buy an ice-cream. They will get used to it.

[Hagakure_Leofman]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seahorse', 'I')f Al Gore's electrical usage would power 250 U.S. homes, how many homes would that power in China? India? Zimbabwe?

[mrobert]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Hagakure_Leofman', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seahorse', 'I')f Al Gore's electrical usage would power 250 U.S. homes, how many homes would that power in China? India? Zimbabwe?

[seahorse2]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mrobert', 'I') don't say we don't have issues, or everything is fine. But come on ... let's not exagerate.

Yes, some poor people will bad because they can't consume 5 gallons to drive some tank to a mall to buy an ice-cream. They will get used to it.

[seahorse2]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Hagakure_Leofman', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seahorse', 'I')f Al Gore's electrical usage would power 250 U.S. homes, how many homes would that power in China? India? Zimbabwe?

[dorlomin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seahorse2', '
')Exaggerate? The videos speak for themselves.

[seahorse2]

Interesting Dorlomin,

Basically, what I gather from your post is that Europe and the rest of the world have a case of the boiling frog syndrome. The rest of the world tolerates the hot water, has a few riots etc, but somehow think they will jump when the the water starts boiling? Don't count on it.

Its fascinating, really, that you all will tolerate a certain amount of civil unrest, bc "that's just the way it is" knowing that we in the US are energy hogs and even continue to reward our overconsumption by buying our dollars, tolerating our wars, and rewarding our hypocrisy with Nobel Prizes.

Maybe you don't expect more out of your country, but I expect more out of mine. I haven't grown used to the hot water. I'm a little jumpy, and plan on staying that way.

[mrobert]

Ok. The video is DRAMATIC.
It's all over Europe. The entire world is paralyzed, and I have just noticed that.

I bet you 10 gallons of premium gas, that I or you, can find similar video for each month of the past 20 years, over some issue. People are never satisfied.

And the media always exagerates things.

Again, I do believe in PeakOil, but dramatizing and doomeristic thinking won't help really.

What exactly is the average IQ of a person, that destroys things created by other people's hard work, just to make a useless point, and then blame an issue on the government, when really a government is not at fault.

Take Iraq for example. What exactly was the final outcome? None. The cost? Astronomical.
Does it really make everyone happy, that some country in the middle east has or hasn't democracy?

We already spent and will continue to spend amounts of money and resources in chasing ghosts, amounts which by far exceed the amount required to actually solve the problem.

Do you imagine you can ask those retards that riot and destroy, to sit the f*ck down, calm down, and discuss the issues we are facing, and try to use some collective thinking to find a solution?

Absolutely NOT.

But tell them it's the arab's fault, it's Al Gore with his mansion, and whatever else, and they will support some quick and useless measures that will have no effect and just cause us to waste more and more resources.

It's really doesn't mather that someone believes in peakoil or not. It doesn't mather if the person is optimistic or pesimistic.

All that mathers, is WHEN confrunted with a difficult situation, how people react.

It's what I am doing in the past year.
Prices went up, my quality of life went up, pretty much costing me the same amount of money. I rather sit down, think, and come up with solution.

Feel free to go outside and riot. It will get you nowhere.
I rather get a pencil, a piece of paper and start thinking.

[seahorse2]

MRobert,

I think I agree with all you have just said.

However, if population is ultimately the problem with resource depletion, there is only one solution, cull the population somehow. As you suggested in another post, you believe 25% of the population will "vanish" bc of PO. Maybe the 25% that will vanish will not be the poor, but from the rich class, the Al Gore's in life, who will have their heads lopped off like the French upperclass during the French Revolution.

Maybe, just maybe, we have all wrongly assumed the poor will die, when it is the rich that out to be concerned of the poor waking up to the reality of resource depletion. If the myth that "anyone can be successful" is every removed from the American psyche, for example, what would be the fallout? Right now, Americans certainly believe that if you work hard enough, you can be the next Sam Walton. So, what are the consequences of PO removing that myth? Acceptance of PO removes that myth, which is founded upon the idea of growth limited only by one's willingness to work.

[mrobert]

@seahorse2: I said useless people. Not poor. There is a BIG difference between the 2.

Let me elaborate.

A guy lives in Pakistan in a small hut, has a piece of land, grows some potatoes and tomatoes by hand, lives of those vegetables, and perhaps has a goat. You get the picture.

A guy lives in New York, and resells insurrance from an insurrance company for an added price. He drives and SUV and has all the modern life amenities.

When TSHTF who do you think goes down first?
The first guy is poor, and the second is useless.

If TSHTF, the guy in Pakistan won't even notice, while our guy in New York will probably get gunned down by one of his fellows, for a gallon of gas.

Don't worry about the American Dream. It's perfectly ok and fine. The original version that is: Work hard, live well.

Not the modern: Get a free credit card, 10 chinese slaves to work for you and spend your day doing nothing

[XOVERX]

The world will not go from relative calm to chaos overnight.

Chaos will become increasingly apparent over months and years.

First comes the sprinkle, then the rain, then the water slowly rises over the banks of the river, then the city is flooded.

So will the oil and food crises become manifest.

All is well? The video suggests otherwise.

The days of of trouble loom just ahead.

[virgincrude]

Hey! That's MY LOCAL RIOT! The first shot is of downtown Almeria, where I was glad not to have wandered, the day the farmers decided to throw their aubergines at the local government office.

The protest was actually about the pricing of their produce, the cost of which has not been passed on to the consumer. It was not a riot over the price of gasoline. Still, it looked good and tied in with the rest of the report.

Riots are pretty common all over europe and the world. Especially football related. See how the police come ready kitted out with all that protective gear? It's not unusual.

Seahorse2, Europeans tolerate the US guzzling only because they do not immediately perceive the Americans to be the cause of the high taxes which THEY pay on a litre or gallon of petrol. Needless to say, as you are probably aware, most of the world simply hates you for many different reasons, not least of which is your fuel hungry life style. But there's not much we can do about that, is there?

[virgincrude]

Forgot to mention, this was all pretty much covered here:

Peak Oil

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', 'V')ery interesting.

But what's more interesting is how little of this is penetrating the U.S. media. One might think they are trying to avoid discussing troubling things, mightn't one?

[Ache]

How is the EuroCup going so far ?

Portugal vs Germany today right ?

Who are you guys rooting for ?

[yesplease]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', 'A')side from NPR, most mainstream media doesn't really interest itself much with unrest in other countries.

[Twilight]

The "riots" were not particularly widespread. In the UK there were none and the handful of small protests did not amount to much. In France it is merely democracy in action and probably closer to what the founders of the US had in mind than to chaos (now there is an idea that will not cross an anchor man's lips). Spain is a little different, but they have bigger problems to be honest. On the whole it looks like business as usual. There is ample precedent. We had worse than this in 2000 and lesser events almost every year since. This stuff will come and go, and the long-term trend will be towards greater disruption, yes. But these events in particular, they cannot be isolated and declared to be something special.

[mrobert]

Democracy must be enforced on them

[truecougarblue]

2500 line up for food vouchers in Milwaukee and it gets unruly
Milwaukeewatch=1&date=6/23/2008&id=42044
(Sorry if double post)
"We're still trying to figure out why so many people showed up."
That about sums it up for how clueless government is on how this situation will play out.