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THE Native Americans Thread (merged)

A forum for discussion of regional topics including oil depletion but also government, society, and the future.

Would the Native Americans have screwed up as royally?

Yes
16
No votes
No
18
No votes
America wasn't screwed up
4
No votes
 
Total votes : 38

Re: Hopi Prophecy - New Mexico PBS

Postby like_the_dinosaurs » Mon 02 Jun 2008, 14:11:14

White Man and Christianity = the demise of the Human race.

HaHaHa- awesome master

great videos thanks

peace
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Re: Hopi Prophecy - New Mexico PBS

Postby Fredrik » Mon 02 Jun 2008, 17:09:27

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'W')hite Man and Christianity = the demise of the Human race.


I wonder if non-Christian whites or non-white Christians would have treated the Indians better. Is there a way we could know?
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Re: Indigenous Native American Prophecy (Elders Speak)

Postby mos6507 » Mon 02 Jun 2008, 17:38:36

Some good food for thought here.
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Re: Hopi Prophecy - New Mexico PBS

Postby Jack » Mon 02 Jun 2008, 18:08:58

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '
')White Man and Christianity = the demise of the Human race.


Is that why the whole world chooses to adopt the Western lifestyle whenever possible?

8)
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Re: Hopi Prophecy - New Mexico PBS

Postby vision-master » Mon 02 Jun 2008, 19:55:44

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '
')White Man and Christianity = the demise of the Human race.


Is that why the whole world chooses to adopt the Western lifestyle whenever possible?

8)


Unsustainable.
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Re: Hopi Prophecy - New Mexico PBS

Postby Jack » Mon 02 Jun 2008, 20:42:04

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '
')Unsustainable.


Nothing is truly sustainable. In the fullness of time, every star in the universe will die.

Before that, the sun will die.

So the question becomes sustainable over what period of time?

A few decades works for me.

How about a brief summary of what the Hopis have to say? I don't care to spend 30 minutes to learn that digging sticks are the answer.

8)
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Re: Hopi Prophecy - New Mexico PBS

Postby DomusAlbion » Mon 02 Jun 2008, 20:42:20

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '
')White Man and Christianity = the demise of the Human race.


Is that why the whole world chooses to adopt the Western lifestyle whenever possible?

8)


Unsustainable.


Then vision-master get thee off welfare and to a local cliff dwelling.
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Re: Hopi Prophecy - New Mexico PBS

Postby vision-master » Mon 02 Jun 2008, 20:46:44

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DomusAlbion', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'W')hite Man and Christianity = the demise of the Human race.
Is that why the whole world chooses to adopt the Western lifestyle whenever possible?8)
Unsustainable.
Then vision-master get thee off welfare and to a local cliff dwelling.

Nice thought. I haven't the strength or willpower, nor could I handle the culture shock. Guess I'm just stuck with the rest of ya for a spell. :razz:
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Re: Hopi Prophecy - New Mexico PBS

Postby vision-master » Mon 02 Jun 2008, 20:51:31

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'U')nsustainable.

Nothing is truly sustainable. In the fullness of time, every star in the universe will die. Before that, the sun will die. So the question becomes sustainable over what period of time? A few decades works for me. How about a brief summary of what the Hopis have to say? I don't care to spend 30 minutes to learn that digging sticks are the answer. 8)

So yer wants a fast-food thread of Hopi Prophecy, huh. Pass me a cheezebuger.
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Re: Hopi Prophecy - New Mexico PBS

Postby Jack » Mon 02 Jun 2008, 20:59:11

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'S')o yer wants a fast-food thread of Hopi Prophecy, huh. Pass me a cheezebuger.

Precisely! Something like 3 primary themes and 100 word summary would be nice.
No, I won't hold my breath. That would make far too many people happy.
8)
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Re: Hopi Prophecy - New Mexico PBS

Postby vision-master » Mon 02 Jun 2008, 21:00:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'S')o yer wants a fast-food thread of Hopi Prophecy, huh. Pass me a cheezebuger.

Precisely! Something like 3 primary themes and 100 word summary would be nice. No, I won't hold my breath. That would make far too many people happy. 8)

check back tomorrow as I need a drink right now - over an out!
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Re: Hopi Prophecy - New Mexico PBS

Postby vision-master » Mon 02 Jun 2008, 21:06:09

Oh, I forgot, study lesson for tonight! later...........
Image
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Re: Hopi Prophecy - New Mexico PBS

Postby mos6507 » Tue 03 Jun 2008, 04:45:58

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'O')h, I forgot, study lesson for tonight! later...........
Image


What the hell is that supposed to be, a storyboard panel from Raiders of the Lost Ark?
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Re: Hopi Prophecy - New Mexico PBS

Postby Jack » Tue 03 Jun 2008, 06:15:48

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '
')What the hell is that supposed to be, a storyboard panel from Raiders of the Lost Ark?


A very brief look at the first few minutes indicates it's their view of the future. The bottom line is supposed to indicate that humanity will survive a long time if they use digging sticks and plant corn. The top line is the present technological path.

Personally, I have zero interest in living a neolithic lifestyle; but perhaps Vision Master can provide a more interesting summary.
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Re: Hopi Prophecy - New Mexico PBS

Postby Micki » Tue 03 Jun 2008, 21:14:03

Looks to me like we can choose to live on the ground and grow majs or we can take the spiritual path climbing up the heaven.

What would be more interesting is however how the Hopi interpret this. Do we know what this actually represents...if anything?

Is the maltese cross (the iron cross) part of the original? It looks at least in that picture as if it is of completely different style.
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Re: Hopi Prophecy - New Mexico PBS

Postby vision-master » Tue 03 Jun 2008, 22:33:24

They are saying, white man fooked things up and if they don't change their ways (very, very soon), Mother Earth will take care of things with "The Purification" and that ain't gonna be pretty one-bit!
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Re: Hopi Prophecy - New Mexico PBS

Postby Micki » Tue 03 Jun 2008, 23:06:05

That's the prophecy in general. At least what I was asking about is that particular picture with the stairway to heaven.
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Re: Hopi Prophecy - New Mexico PBS

Postby charliebrownout » Thu 05 Jun 2008, 15:38:08

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'T')hey are saying, white man fooked things up and if they don't change their ways (very, very soon), Mother Earth will take care of things with "The Purification" and that ain't gonna be pretty one-bit!


Personally, I feel this makes a lot of sense. I watched the three parts (plus some additional related items on YouTube).

I think the anomie, the ennui, the depression people experience in modern life is really the pain of being disconnected from each other, the earth, and the essence of what it is to be alive.

I mean, today it seems so strange to me, that we spend so much time trying to extend life (some people actually WANT to live 150 years in one worn out old body? I don't get it), but we have removed many of the things that make life worth living in the first place (strong community, family bonds, etc).

What I find so striking, is the harmony the prophecy has with true Christianity. God said "I am"...God is the alpha and the omega. The first and the last. We've been told the world would be better turned over to plough shares. Materialism, is, so far as I can see, considered a BAD thing across the board.

I've landed myself in a particular faith, but I tend to think more like a Universal Unitarian.

A stick and a seed is an honest way of life at least. There's not too much harm a person can do with a stick and a seed. :)

I'd rather live an honest, clean, happy 30 years than a miserable 150 any day. Also, I like children, youth. I don't want my wrinkly old ass taking up space and resources from new generations just because I've got money in the bank to pay to cheat death an extra X amount of years.

Everyone dies. The only time dying is really "sad" is when it happens before the individual has had a chance to experience life, have their own children, make their own discoveries (i.e. dying "before one's time" or in the prime of life).

I feel like I'm in a lonely minority on that point, though.

What these Hopi Elders have said is beautiful in its simplicity and common sense.
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Re: Hopi Prophecy - New Mexico PBS

Postby vision-master » Thu 05 Jun 2008, 15:50:13

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('charliebrownout', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'T')hey are saying, white man fooked things up and if they don't change their ways (very, very soon), Mother Earth will take care of things with "The Purification" and that ain't gonna be pretty one-bit!


Personally, I feel this makes a lot of sense. I watched the three parts (plus some additional related items on YouTube).

I think the anomie, the ennui, the depression people experience in modern life is really the pain of being disconnected from each other, the earth, and the essence of what it is to be alive.

I mean, today it seems so strange to me, that we spend so much time trying to extend life (some people actually WANT to live 150 years in one worn out old body? I don't get it), but we have removed many of the things that make life worth living in the first place (strong community, family bonds, etc).

What I find so striking, is the harmony the prophecy has with true Christianity. God said "I am"...God is the alpha and the omega. The first and the last. We've been told the world would be better turned over to plough shares. Materialism, is, so far as I can see, considered a BAD thing across the board.

I've landed myself in a particular faith, but I tend to think more like a Universal Unitarian.

A stick and a seed is an honest way of life at least. There's not too much harm a person can do with a stick and a seed. :)

I'd rather live an honest, clean, happy 30 years than a miserable 150 any day. Also, I like children, youth. I don't want my wrinkly old ass taking up space and resources from new generations just because I've got money in the bank to pay to cheat death an extra X amount of years.

Everyone dies. The only time dying is really "sad" is when it happens before the individual has had a chance to experience life, have their own children, make their own discoveries (i.e. dying "before one's time" or in the prime of life).

I feel like I'm in a lonely minority on that point, though.

What these Hopi Elders have said is beautiful in its simplicity and common sense.


And scary as heck.
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Re: Hopi Prophecy - New Mexico PBS

Postby biofuel13 » Thu 05 Jun 2008, 17:45:03

Thought I'd chime in on this one since First Nations Studies was my major area of studies back in my good old college days. While there is no market for the degree anywhere, the enrichment I gained from devoting many years of study to this area has benefited me greatly. For anyone interested in the Hopi prophecies and ways of thinking on these topics I highly recommend reading "The Hopi Survival Kit" by Thomas E. Mails. The insight you will gain from this text will benefit you in both a pre and post collapse world. Many of the prophecies have indeed been fulfilled and the end of the great cycle is nearly upon the world.
If we are serious about living in harmony with nature we need look no further than to the people who accomplished this feat for tens of thousands of years. For those who are seriously doing "preps" for a post collapse world it is important to start learning about the culture and mindset needed to survive as well as hoarding food and stocking up etc etc. Look to the elders they truly have the answers.
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