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PeakOil is You

THE ASPO Thread Pt. 2

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Re: ASPO calls the peak

Postby BrazilianPO » Sun 04 May 2008, 10:56:46

The year of peak is not what worries me. What worries me is when the decline will pick up speed. If we keep on producing 85mbpd for the next 10 years, fine, we just have to conserve and apart from some pain, life will go on (no hordes of zombies).

But if production drops 2mbpd next year and every year thereafter, then we will have to change to conservation + starvation + social breakdown. 8O

Talking about zombies, I just finished watching the movie "28 weeks later". Those hordes are not going to be a pretty sight.
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Re: ASPO calls the peak

Postby vision-master » Sun 04 May 2008, 11:07:02

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BrazilianPO', 'T')he year of peak is not what worries me. What worries me is when the decline will pick up speed. If we keep on producing 85mbpd for the next 10 years, fine, we just have to conserve and apart from some pain, life will go on (no hordes of zombies).

But if production drops 2mbpd next year and every year thereafter, then we will have to change to conservation + starvation + social breakdown. 8O

Talking about zombies, I just finished watching the movie "28 weeks later". Those hordes are not going to be a pretty sight.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'D')r. Bakhtiari's 4 Phases of Transition

"The four Transition periods (T1, T2, T3, and T4) will roughly span the 2006-2020 era. Each Transition [will] cover, on average, three to four years.

"The major palpable difference between the four Ts is their respective gradient of oil output decline -- very small for T1, perceptible for T2, remarkable in T3, and rather steep for T4. In fact, this gradation in decline is a genuine blessing for those having to cope and adapt.


http://www.whiskeyandgunpowder.com/Arch ... 60825.html
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Re: ASPO calls the peak

Postby roccman » Sun 04 May 2008, 11:13:02

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '
')
"The major palpable difference between the four Ts is their respective gradient of oil output decline -- very small for T1, perceptible for T2, remarkable in T3, and rather steep for T4. In fact, this gradation in decline is a genuine blessing for those having to cope and adapt.


http://www.whiskeyandgunpowder.com/Arch ... 60825.html[/quote]

So we go from T2 "perceptible" to "rather steep" in 12 years.

Seems like things are progressing at light speed.

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Re: ASPO calls the peak

Postby catbox » Sun 04 May 2008, 12:10:42

From the same news letter...Article called, "A Matter of Time"...the whole thing is good, but the last paragraph sticks out to me:

" Over all, the Oil Age can last about 250 years, which is a relatively short span of history. It ravaged the planet, changing the natural environment in many ways and causing a massive extinction of species. It may even have affected the climate, leading to rising sea-levels, as have occurred many times the geological past. Frankly, it is not entirely sure that good old Homo sapiens will make it. Unless he moves fast to plan and prepare for the changes. Will he be as wise as the name he gave himself implies?"

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Re: ASPO calls the peak

Postby vision-master » Sun 04 May 2008, 12:15:36

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('catbox', 'F')rom the same news letter...Article called, "A Matter of Time"...the whole thing is good, but the last paragraph sticks out to me:

" Over all, the Oil Age can last about 250 years, which is a relatively short span of history. It ravaged the planet, changing the natural environment in many ways and causing a massive extinction of species. It may even have affected the climate, leading to rising sea-levels, as have occurred many times the geological past. Frankly, it is not entirely sure that good old Homo sapiens will make it. Unless he moves fast to plan and prepare for the changes. Will he be as wise as the name he gave himself implies?"

cb

2047...............
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Re: ASPO calls the peak

Postby mos6507 » Sun 04 May 2008, 12:51:35

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Leanan', 'A')nd it's in the rear-view mirror. The May ASPO Newsletter has moved the peak for all oil from 2010 to 2007.

The PDF version is incomplete, but it has the graphs and such.


And nobody besides their own clique gives a damn, unfortunately.
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Re: ASPO calls the peak

Postby Dan1195 » Sun 04 May 2008, 13:29:40

Interesting they pushed the peak back despite the extra production from mega projects expected during the next two years.
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Re: ASPO calls the peak

Postby Starvid » Sun 04 May 2008, 13:45:13

I'd like to add that, as we all know, the data is very bad. As a result of us getting better data, the peak year might keep jumping back and forth, just as it has done previously on regular occasions.
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Re: ASPO calls the peak

Postby Bas » Sun 04 May 2008, 14:28:57

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Starvid', 'I')'d like to add that, as we all know, the data is very bad. As a result of us getting better data, the peak year might keep jumping back and forth, just as it has done previously on regular occasions.

I agree; we've been on a virtual plateau for the last three years and it wouldn't surprise me at all if we're still on it three years from now, high prices and all that.
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Re: ASPO calls the peak

Postby Leanan » Sun 04 May 2008, 14:29:20

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dan1195', 'I')nteresting they pushed the peak back despite the extra production from mega projects expected during the next two years.

I think it's an acknowledgment that there won't be a lot of extra production in the future. The mega projects are mostly in areas that are hard to produce (which is why they weren't brought online earlier). Projects like Thunder Horse. Which tend to be late, and not produce as much or as fast or as long as predicted.
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Re: ASPO calls the peak

Postby smiley » Sun 04 May 2008, 15:51:15

Another way of looking at it is that if those megaprojects do not come on-line on time, we'll be facing a substantial decline in the next few years. My experience insofar with these projects is that they are about as dependable as the Italian railway system.
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Re: ASPO calls the peak

Postby TheDude » Sun 04 May 2008, 16:03:46

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Leanan', 'T')he mega projects are mostly in areas that are hard to produce (which is why they weren't brought online earlier).


KSA is a hard area to produce in? :-D But I know what you mean.

Oil megaprojects at Wiki, for anyone who wants to mull over the numbers. If there were substantial projects coming online the companies/nations would be proudly boasting. And ASPO are basing this revision on declines in areas with reliable data - Angola, Brasil, Nigeria and USA. We could see some massive ramp up out of KSA of course - but they're dropping lots of broad hints that they have no intention of doing so, never mind whether they could or not.

Enjoy the gentle decline! 83 mbpd in 2010, 75 in 2015, eh? I thought we just kicked the May 2005 record's butt, too - wahappa? They show US production down .6 mbpd in 2 years, also. Actually 2007 and 2006 were basically equal - not just Bakken, but slight increases in places like Kansas and Utah. High prices are making old wells profitable again, perhaps. Perhaps not of great importance globally but for Yanks it may prove significant.
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Re: ASPO calls the peak

Postby smiley » Sun 04 May 2008, 16:20:31

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'a')lso. Actually 2007 and 2006 were basically equal - not just Bakken, but slight increases in places like Kansas and Utah. High prices are making old wells profitable again, perhaps. Perhaps not of great importance globally but for Yanks it may prove significant

2006 still saw a lot of production shutins due to Katrina. The recovery from that was about as fast as the decline rate, that is why it appeared flat.
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Re: ASPO calls the peak

Postby TheDude » Sun 04 May 2008, 16:42:04

Katrina affected Utah? :-D Yeah, you're right, most of the rebound was in PADD III. Thing is, Texas onshore has exceeded 2004 production. 10 kbpd over 2006. You see this all over the EIA data, it makes me wonder what the story is.

Alaska on the other hand is really taking it on the chin - down about 55 kbpd for 2006.
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Re: ASPO calls the peak

Postby Nike62 » Sun 04 May 2008, 17:42:59

According to my calculator, the totals are:

2007 = 83,7
2010 = 84,3
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Re: ASPO calls the peak

Postby smiley » Sun 04 May 2008, 17:48:29

what calculator

and what is it calculating?
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Re: ASPO calls the peak

Postby Leanan » Sun 04 May 2008, 18:01:36

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheDude', ' ')KSA is a hard area to produce in? :-D

It is now. For example, Manifa. It's is an offshore field. And it sounds like they are planning to refine the oil themselves, because it's not easy to process.
Someone posted at TOD a few weeks ago, and said his company did a study of all the reasonably-sized oil wells produced in the past 15 years. On the whole, they came in later than scheduled, with a lower and quicker peak than predicted.
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Re: ASPO calls the peak

Postby Starvid » Sun 04 May 2008, 18:28:37

The Persian Gulf is not a hard place to work offshore. It's calm and balmy, no storms and it's shallow.

Compare that to the North Sea...
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Re: ASPO calls the peak

Postby dorlomin » Sun 04 May 2008, 18:40:48

Am I quibilling if I say it looks like thay have amended there models rather than explicitly called the peak?
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Re: ASPO calls the peak

Postby dinopello » Sun 04 May 2008, 18:48:06

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Starvid', 'T')he Persian Gulf is not a hard place to work offshore. It's calm and balmy, no storms and it's shallow.

Compare that to the North Sea...


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