[DomusAlbion]

There is really only one effective path to take with Haiti:

Quarantine.

Wait a few months and the problem will have solved itself, balance will be restored.

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DomusAlbion', 'T')here is really only one effective path to take with Haiti: Quarantine. Wait a few months and the problem will have solved itself, balance will be restored.

[DomusAlbion]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'N')ow as it is unlikely that your particular suburban ghetto is self sufficient and certainly requires imports of food (and other necessities) from places like mine. We produce your Cosco milk and ice-cream, much of your fish, all your framing lumber, etc.
I'm wondering if you will accept your own final solution. What happens when all the producers of the world start quarantining the parasites? Where does that leave you?

[Pretorian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'Y')ou are wrong. I absolutely have read your posts but like many others here they probably did not impress me enough to have left an impression. --snip--
You would abandon Haiti. Build a wall around it? How to keep the exiles from immigrating. Sink the boats? Your positions posits lots of interesting questions? Prepared to answer them all?
I discovered a long time ago that selfishness and greed doesn't really work well. You are always watching your back and that sucks. Isn't it easier and doesn't it make more sense to keep helping our brothers and sisters?

[DomusAlbion]

pstarr,

My allegiance and priorities are the same as most, I believe and what is proven by history. They are, in order; family, neighbors, community, nation, world.

I place Haiti along with any other region in the world that can not support itself within its environment, that is "Doomed". We on this board know that the world is in serious trouble. We know that millions, perhaps billions are going to die over the coming decades.

So my question to you is why do you maintain such a self-righteous attitude about someone accepting those facts and openly stating them? Do you believe we should/can save every human in peril? Sure, we can (and do, though it rots on the docks) send aid to Haiti but a decade from now, Haiti will be in the same state it is today, probably in a worse state since there will be even more souls there that will have to suffer.

We can't save them.

[DomusAlbion]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'D')omusAlbion that is so much absolute nonsense. Of course we could save them but we choose not to. Our economy would fail if we chose good rather than war. The wealthy that benefit lie, manipulate, steal and we listen and it goes on. Pathetic.

We have been trained to believe that we are in competition, to equate toys with happiness, to isolate ourselves behind our walls and TV's. For all it's faults, true Christian doctrine understands that giving rather than getting brings true happiness. Strength in truth. Strength in generosity. Strength is enlightened self interest.

[Lumpy]

This really comes down to "natural law". The world is based on it. Here is an example -- GreatGrandma in our family loves all animals. Over the years the word got out amongst all the strays in the town where she lives. She was buying dry dog and cat food by the huge sackful, and the animals figured out when to come around, species by species. The dogs in the morning, the cats in the afternoon, and the SKUNKS in the evening.

Now at first this was a pretty neat scenario ... Momma skunk with her cute little skunk-lettes (whatever they are called), eating on GreatGrandma's back porch, in a residential neighborhood. But then it became two Mommas plus babies, then three, etc ... (In addition to all the stray cats and dogs at other times during the day, remember.)

Then all at about the same time, GreatGrandpa died, GreatGrandma began living on a fixed income (which made the cost of dog/cat/skunk feeding much harder on her) and the neighborhood starting noticing an incredible number of skunks around.

Animal control was called in by a neighbor, and they trapped the skunks and set them free back to their natural habitat, to eat whatever they would have been eating, if it weren't for Grandma's cat food kibbles out there for them.

Not surprisingly, however, after at least 4 generations of skunks heading for GreatGrandma's house for their meals, the skunks seemed to have either lost their urge or their smarts to hunt for their own food. And so they came back.

This time when animal control came (called by another neighbor who was understandably concerned) they caught around 35-40 skunks, and shot them all.

So GreatGrandma felt pretty bad for a long time. She says herself that if she had never "taught" those skunks to depend on her for food instead of finding their own natural way, two things would have happened:
1. Their population would have been controlled naturally by the amount of food available to them in the wild.
2. They wouldn't have ended up having to be trapped and put to death.

In other words, natural law would have prevailed.

I remember when I was about 7 years old, reading my first National Geographic. There was this photo of a group of well-meaning missionaries who had gone to Africa to help the "poor, ignorant natives". They started by bringing them clothes -- which they did not need in their society. The photo showed the missionaries beaming, as they handed out bras and shirts to the women, and several women from the tribe off to the side, trying to figure out what to do with the bras. Most of them decided they were some kind of head-dress, and had donned them accordingly.

The article talked about the goals of the missionaries to bring not only salvation to the tribal members, but also "a better way of life, based on that of the greatest nation in the world, the United States of America."

Obviously that article left a big impression on me.

Now look what has happened in the ensuing decades. Instead of being left to pursue their own ways of life, society after society has been "squared pegged into round holes" in our attempts to share the wonders of the West.

I love my country. But I think we should have left folks alone in the first place to love and continue their own way of life, rather than imposing ours on them -- which proved unsustainable without our ongoing presence, aid/interference -- which has now peaked.

GreatGrandma should not have started feeding those skunks, and she knows it. She is a loving wonderful woman -- but she sees where she went wrong, even though she had the best of intentions when she started out with those feedings.

She had to accept that she was in great part responsible for what happened to them -- because she took away their ability to live on their own for so many generations.

You can complete the metaphor yourself.

Lumpy

[Tyler_JC]

Giving aid to Haiti is counter-productive at this point.

They are beyond the point of saving. They have so vastly exceeded their carrying capacity without having anything resembling a decent standard of living. A 20% reduction would mean wholesale megadeath.

In America, we have exceeded our carrying capacity but we have an excessive standard of living. A 20% reduction wouldn't mean mass starvation, it would mean one less SUV in every garage.

HAITI HAS NOTHING TO CUT. They're screwed.





How are they going to support a 50% increase in population in 25 years if they are already running out of resources?

I just don't see it working.

And with western governments experiencing a decrease in revenue as a result of the current economic slowdown, what do you think the chances are of an increase in foreign aid?

Throw off your liberal bias for a minute, Pstarr. What do you think the probability of a major increase in foreign aid for Haiti is?

I give it less than 10%.

Now what are their odds of surviving as a country without this miracle handout?

I give it less than 10%.

When you look at the world in terms of realistic probabilities...Haiti is doomed. I just hope the Dominican Republic isn't as spineless as the United States when it comes to defending its own people.

[eastbay]

Actually Haiti has no natural resources. It's not a question of depletio9n they are at zero. None at all. Like pstarr said, and is common knowledge, Haitians have stripped their land to bare dirt.

They import everything including 12,000 bbls of oil every day at a cost of around $1,200,000 each day.

According to www.cia.gov Haiti relies primarily upon 1) international aid and, 2) remittances from the Haitians the USA has kindly imported over the past few decades.

With this free food party they're reproducing like crazy with an alarming rate or population growth. At some point their entire population will need to be exported to North America and Europe thereby saving the cost of shipping all the food across the Atlantic.

[Pretorian]

in 1984 Haiti had 1.35 mln of cattle, 500000 pigs, 1.1 mln goats, 425000 horses. They harvested 3 million tons of sugarcane, 600 000 tons of bananas and plantains, 350000 tons of sweet potatos, 186000 tons of corn, 124000 tons of rice, 123000 tons of sorghum,350000 tons of mango, 265000 tons of cassava, 52000 tons of beans, 38000 tons of coffee, 40000 tons of oranges, and a bunch of other stuff .
Where did it go?

[HEADER_RACK]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')here did it go?

[eastbay]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('HEADER_RACK', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')here did it go?

[DomusAlbion]

Lumpy, your post was a great story and to the point. Our compassion over the last 60 years has led to increased pain now and in the future.

[Lumpy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DomusAlbion', 'L')umpy, your post was a great story and to the point. Our compassion over the last 60 years has led to increased pain now and in the future.

[deMolay]

Beside shooting people the UN's next best attribute is RAPING GIRLS AND WOMEN. They are a sicko Socialist Club. We need to get rid of them. They are mostly criminals.