[johnmarkos]

My wife and I live in the city of San Francisco, where we rent one half of a duplex. Although we own a car, I do not drive it to work every day (I ride a bicycle and take commuter rail). We could, concievably, live without a car and we are considering City CarShare after the baby's born. Although we live in a large apartment by San Francisco standards (1200 square feet), our electricity use is low by U.S. standards: under 300 kwh/month. Because of the excellent Bay Area climate, our heating bill (gas) is never above $50/month. We just joined a CSA (community supported agriculture) farm so we know where our food is coming from: it travels 68 miles from the farm to a neighbor's porch. In our neighborhood we can walk to grocery stores, shops, and public transit.

In many ways, we're perfectly situated for a low-resource life. City dwellers tend to use less energy and land than suburban folk and we're trying to take advantage of as many of the city's opportunities for low-energy living as we can.

On the other hand, we can't do some of the things that rural and suburban homeowners can do. For example, rooftop solar power is pretty much out. The back yard is tiny and much of it is covered with concrete so gardening would be a challenge. Our landlord, an electrician, installed light switches with dimmers all over our apartment. We spent quite a bit of money finding compact fluorescent bulbs that were supposed to work with dimmer switches. Unfortunately, they were too bulky to fit in any of our fixtures.

So I'm curious if there are other forum members who are trying to live a sustainable urban life. What have you found is possible? Where have you found limits? In many ways, I think we city dwellers start out a few steps ahead of the typical North American suburbanite. On the other hand, in a hard and fast crash we would most likely be at a serious disadvantage.

[Schneider]

There is a lot of thing you cannot do where you are..but at least,here what i feel you CAN do :

1) Small compost pile outside ,in tires..
2) You could grow vegetables in buckets on the concrete and anywhere you can have sunlight
3) Go to this website to learn more about Urban Homesteading

I live myself in a medium apartment with my younger brother and i will try to do as much i can do this year,even if it is a bit small ..

Well,at least i will have first hand knowledge while waiting get myself relocated somewhere with 1 acre of land !


Schneider
French-Canadian

[kpeavey]

If your yard is too small for a garden, there are always options for growing your own food. Many cities have parks specifically for renting out plots for gardens. These plots range from 50 sqft up to a thousand sqft or more, with annual fees ranging from $25-100. I would bet San Fran has these available, either offered by the government or private enterprise, and perhaps through your CSA. You might even be able to become involved with your CSA in a more particapatroy role. At the very least you would gain considerable knowledge and experience.

[Pops]

Even in some luddite fantasy world everyone isn’t going to raise goats and rutabagas. If your assessment is that there will be a long slope with minimal civil and infrastructure disruption I think San Francisco is a great city. And you folks seem to have a pretty small energy “footprintâ€

[uNkNowN ElEmEnt]

Here's a silly question. What place would an ordained minister have in the PP period? will there still be a demand for funeral rites, weddings, house blessings, counselling? I was thinking about doing that as a sideline.

[jesus_of_suburbia_old]

There are many people in this country who value their religion over the well-being of their family. I would say, yes.

[kpeavey]

History shows that in the event of disaster, people tend to flock to the church for guidance. At the same time people reaffirm their faith, others lose theirs as a result of the disaster.

Post Peak, the clergy will have job security.

[Pops]

C'mon now, I REALLY wasn't trying to hyjack this into another "best job" thread.

Keep on with sustainable urban life...

[uNkNowN ElEmEnt]

I'll mention this here but it will do anywhere really. Get your G/f of wife to save all her nylons. The more I think about it the more I find uses for it. Once she is ready to throw a pair in the trash get her to wash them, throw them in the freezer for a day or two.

They can be used when drying corn/popcorn, hold up heavy fruits (especially if container gardening where you have things growing vertically. This is good for cucumbers, beefsteak tomatoes, squashes etc.

They can also be used to keep your open polinated plants selected for seed saving form being accidentally polinated by a plant you don't want it to be polinated by.

[mgibbons19]

I like the 4 horseman avatar. I'm a grad.

Anyway, I think this is one of the issues that fascinates me the most. When I think of the rural folks I know, and all the rural wannabees, these people spend scads of time in the car. I work with a lady who family farms, and drives 50m each way. But, in a reduced energy environment, this is going to get costly quickly.

Given the large number of people here who want to do the neo-homesteading thing, what about the in-between time, when you still need to drive all over to make it work? Homesteading to me seems great, but the transportation is (and always has been) its achilles heel.

And then there's the isolation. Pre oil farmers (in the us) were pretty lonely bastards. Every family was marooned on their 1/4 section plot.

This isn't to trash the homesteading idea mind you, just to acknowledge its downsides. This leaves me thinking, again, that the small towns are perhaps the best place to be.

[Pops]

That is true mg. Living a suburbanite lifestyle 50 miles from the nearest strip mall is pretty foolish but will certainly make for some exceedingly nice – and, cheap little homesteads when gas gets prohibitively expensive.

The Path to freedom site looks interesting although it doesn’t seem to really apply to truly downtown folks like John.

Doesn’t anyone have any suggestions?

[DomusAlbion]

The French Intensive Gardening method was developed by the "maraicheres" (“swamp dwellersâ€

[johnmarkos]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DomusAlbion', '
')One concern I have about cities is the water supply. I believe, but could be wrong, that the pressure in the water lines is maintained by pumping stations, most likely driven by electricity. Many cities could become deserts or the scene of waterborne diseases.

[DomusAlbion]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('johnmarkos', 'A')s for my city, the Hetch Hetchy system actually produces power.

[gg3]

Minus water and sanitation, disease spreads like wild fire. Water supply pumps and sewage treatment plants will be the last thing to suffer from power cuts, you can count on that. Private cars will be banned long before farmers' trucks and sanitation trucks stop rolling.

For those reasons I think that urban life in certain areas will be sustainable, and the SF Bay Area is one of those (I live in the East Bay).

Everything will get more expensive, there will be spot shortages and disruptions, and varieties of foods and other goods will change, but it will be possible to live a tolerable life.

The issue of jobs however is critical: the thing that's most likely to "get you" isn't starvation but unemployment leading to homelessness. Develop multiple skill-sets and establish informal work collectives with friends. I have experience in these areas if anyone wants to hear more.

I am highly sceptical of urban gardening for two major reasons. One is all the toxic crap in the soil. Two is the toxic crap in the air, some of which comes down when it rains. And as for gardening in used tires, what about the toxic nasties in the rubber that could leach into your soil? Better to stick to clay pots and re-used plastic containers. And grow stuff indoors if possible.

However, there's another food scenario that's interesting to consider. Continued availability of raw-material agricultural products such as milk, eggs, and grains; but decline in availability (or steep increase in price) for "manufactured" food products (such as the store-bought cookies I love so much!).

In that case, being able to prepare good meals from raw ingredients is a no-brainer (and a skill at which I am admittedly deficient), but also, being able to bake is not only a good skill but a potential source of income: breads, rolls, deserts, etc., to replace the brand-name items. And I don't mean some kind of "health food substitute," but real mouth-watering sweets dripping with sugar and calories, that the neighbors will want and be willing to trade or pay for. (This is not mercenary or profiteering, assuming everyone plays fair; market systems encourage production and trade, and people need to earn a living for the work they do.)

What I'm doing for urban sustainability: Designing telecommuter infrastructure for my clients; promoting telecommuting generally; installing remote-access on every system we install in order to reduce our own driving to client sites; replaced my incandescents with CFs; replaced my conventional washer with a twin-tub; use "purge water" (the cold that comes through before hot water in the shower) for toilet-flushes; and currently engaged in a serious design project on graywater recovery. And the usual stuff about recycling and not wasting heat. Next new vehicle a few years from now will almost certainly be some kind of hybrid or new-tech powertrain. When I buy a house I'm going to start doing all the usual things e.g. insulation, solar as soon as I can afford it, etc. etc.

[RdSnt]

To answer an earlier question first regarding water pressure. Look around your neighbourhood and see if there are any large water towers. If there are then you have a hydraulic pressure system, meaning that your water pressure is sustained by gravity rather than pumps.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gg3', '
')
What I'm doing for urban sustainability: Designing telecommuter infrastructure for my clients; promoting telecommuting generally; installing remote-access on every system we install in order to reduce our own driving to client sites; replaced my incandescents with CFs; replaced my conventional washer with a twin-tub; use "purge water" (the cold that comes through before hot water in the shower) for toilet-flushes; and currently engaged in a serious design project on graywater recovery. And the usual stuff about recycling and not wasting heat. Next new vehicle a few years from now will almost certainly be some kind of hybrid or new-tech powertrain. When I buy a house I'm going to start doing all the usual things e.g. insulation, solar as soon as I can afford it, etc. etc.

[mgibbons19]

I think the same of cars. Probably the best investment is a cheap used Corolla. It will keep rolling for a long time, is good on gas, and can be paid off. More important than dumping 20k into a hybrid is to keep your overall mileage in check. It will be better for you to drive an old pickup 5000 miles a year, than to drive a new prius 15000. I understand that people still need cars, but those who purchase the better cars to me seem like they are chasing the rainbow. Better to deal with the root problem, over all mileage, first. Then you will have more money, more vehicle choices, and you won't be strapped with a loan on a car that'll be hard to unload living in a suburb, and so on.

[RdSnt]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shannymara', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('RdSnt', '
')Are there newer RO systems that waste less water? I was drinking RO water until I found out about all the waste. I can't drink it anymore considering all the water problems in the world. I'm cursed (or blessed, depending on your point of view) with a conscience.

[bart]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gg3', 'I') am highly sceptical of urban gardening for two major reasons. One is all the toxic crap in the soil. Two is the toxic crap in the air, some of which comes down when it rains. And as for gardening in used tires, what about the toxic nasties in the rubber that could leach into your soil? Better to stick to clay pots and re-used plastic containers. And grow stuff indoors if possible.

[johnmarkos]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('johnmarkos', '
')1.6 Gwh/year -- nothing to sneeze at and comparable to the annual power use of the city of San Francisco. Of course, the entire Bay Area relies on this system but it is still a nice resource.