[TheDude]

Eastbay, get your gun, to paraphrase Irving Berlin. Or knife. Or mace. Or all of the above, ala specop. Or a rape horn - ever hear one of those things? Shit they're loud!

Or take some ass kicking lessons, ala Ludi. Are you traveling with the whole family? Strength in numbers, although little kids are more of liability in a confrontation, unless they've taken plenty of Tae Kwan Do lessons at the strip mall. I GUESS.

Maybe we'll see people in neighborhoods traveling in groups to bus stops and stations. Again, strength in numbers. What worked/works in rough neighborhoods, anyway? Maybe you/we'll have to pay the Don for protection. As the streets get even hairier people will care less and less about concealed weapons I'd bet.

Hey, here's another interesting question - will demand destruction with motorists make mass transit nigh ubiquitous, to the point where you'll have to walk 5 blocks from anywhere in town to catch a bus? And you'll have a neighborhood watch keeping an eye on you - maybe a local militia? I agree that those MAX stations are creepy places to be.

[eastbay]

Dude, the MAX stations are beyond dangerous... they're deadly! Check out what happened just last night at a MAX station. Basically, the police have given up. Hopefully this new strategy of police riding trains will help.

Yes, I agree. There may soon develop community safety escorts to protect riders where police have clearly failed. After things deteriorate more police will be even less effective. Urban transportation will eventually be many fold more dangerous than it is now. It may decay to the point where, as thuja suggested, authorities simply write off certain areas.

So, in order for urban light rail (or busses) to serve as a reliable and effective transportationin alternative to cars thereby mitigating the transportation disaster of PO, adequate protection will be mandatory either by vigilantes or civil authorities. What we're seeing now is a nice glimpse of what's coming at us.

Oh, and I'm a smallish, weak, and timid man, as the few here who've met me can attest. I won't need weapons to ride a MAX train because I'm not riding MAX. And if I ain't riding it now, I definitely won't be riding it in the future!

[Plantagenet]

Sounds like a pretty bad attack. Perhaps you are right to be careful about riding on the MAX train, Eastbay.

I'm surprised you aren't more sympathetic to the violent thugs, however...don't far leftists think violent criminals are really blameless victims themselves who were forced into a life of crime by the evils of American capitalism

[TheDude]

Nice try, Plant. Don't think eBay's quite the talking points simpleton you're hoping for. My politics are leftish but I'd like to see a crowd take a baseball bat to those fuckers' kneecaps.

Took a poli sci quiz once and came out about dead center.

[eastbay]

Thanks Dude. No. That touchie-feelie garbage is for those suicidal liberals, with whom I generally have very little in common.

If I ran the show near those MAX stations I would have CDR's (neighborhood committee's, Committees's in Defence of the Revolution, to be exact, as exist in Cuba) formed and let them deal with the thugs. The police wouldn't even have to get involved.

In one day there would be no more thugs.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eastbay', 'I')f I ran the show near those MAX stations I would have CDR's (neighborhood committee's, Committees's in Defence of the Revolution, to be exact, as exist in Cuba) formed and let them deal with the thugs. The police wouldn't even have to get involved.

In one day there would be no more thugs.

[inculcated]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'T')he rule of law is better.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('inculcated', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'T')he rule of law is better.

[inculcated]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '
')You prefer lynch mobs and vigilante committees?

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('inculcated', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '
')You prefer lynch mobs and vigilante committees?

[inculcated]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'T')here is still jealousy in tribes. If it isn't over possessions then it is over which guy gets the prettiest girl, or who has the best horse or has counted the most coups or has the best place along the river or beach.

Jealousy is a human emotion. People in tribes are fully human with a full range of human emotions.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('inculcated', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'T')here is still jealousy in tribes. If it isn't over possessions then it is over which guy gets the prettiest girl, or who has the best horse or has counted the most coups or has the best place along the river or beach.

Jealousy is a human emotion. People in tribes are fully human with a full range of human emotions.

[inculcated]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '.').."gift-giving ceremonies" bears little resemblance to anything real...Tribes can no more change human nature...

[Plantagenet]

Of course gift giving ceremonies are real in tribal cultures. You've never heard of a NW Indian potlatch?

The ceremonies don't change human nature however. Tribal peoples still have emotions, still get jealous, still get angry, still steal, still commit murder, and still go to war.

Cheers!

[inculcated]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'O')f course gift giving ceremonies are real in tribal cultures....The ceremonies don't change human nature however.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('inculcated', ' ')All neolithic societies had a range of productivity depending upon the individual. All incorporated a behavioral norm that freely and willingly re-allocated resources from over productive members to unproductive members; freely, willingly and without a trace of resent causing violence.

[inculcated]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'N')eolithic people warred on each other all the time...

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('inculcated', 'w')hiling away the hours on the instant idiot machine...

[thuja]

Another great thing happening in Portland- not "Green" mind you, just a strategy for "Staving off the Inevitable".

All Cities Are Evil

[culicomorpha]

I don't know about Seattle and Portland being all that immune from hard times. It'll probably do better than most areas, but then again that's not saying much. There was a post on PO a while back from BlisteredWhippet that pretty much laid out many the problems with the Seattle/Portland corridor and it was probably the best rant I have ever read about the region. I'll see if I can locate it...

Once the GW droughts start really kicking-in, there will a steady stream of new people to the area, accelerating its degradation. Course, they won't find many places to live. The vacancy rate around 3.6% for King County, and anything not falling down is getting converted to condos.

Maybe if things collapsed fast this could be avoided, but I doubt it will. True the area has lots of water, but the transportation is poor, there is way too much sprawl, and like I mentioned already, there will be a continuous and ever expanding number of people migrating to the region. They will rapacious first-worlders looking for a new place to devour.

On the other hand, I could see a variant of Ecotopia working here, just need one big damn wall!