[cube]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eastbay', '$')11,000.00 each yeah sure, like anyone would pay that. I paid $2,000 for my 150cc Derbi getting 86 mpg last fill-up. I wonder how long it would take me to burn $9,000 worth of gas?

[OneLoneClone]

If you dont need to go on highways, these are 1/10th the price and very robust. Quiet, too.

http://www.goped.com/Products/esr750ex/default.asp

[ScooterJones]

How about something that is a little more affordable & can be ridden on the highway!

[edit: bad links]

or great options for the non-highway!

[edit: bad links]

[roccman]

I am looking for an electric scooter that is built well...any input is appreciated.

[edit - moved topic from Energy Technology to Open Discussion - markl]

[kuidaskassikaeb]

http://www.bicycleman.com/

He has also got some electric scooters. I saw them.

[Pixie]

http://www.electric-bikes.com/zap.htm

[WisJim]

My son got a Zap-pack for one of his bikes 8 or 10 years ago, and doesn't use it much now, but recently got a 36 volt Crystalite rear hub motor that he is experimenting with. Not scooters, but I think that an electric bicycle, with larger diameter wheels, is more appealing in some situations. Then again, an electric scooter could be either one of the platform scooters that you normally stand on and push with one foot, or a sit-down-on powered vehicle with an electric motor instead of a gasoline engine.
Batteries are the problem, as with any electrical vehicle.
There are Yahoo! discussion groups for both electric bikes and scooters.
http://www.electric-bikes.com/go-hub.htm
http://www.scooterwerks.com/

[Mesuge]

The problem with electric scooters or motorbikes is that they are quite inefficient, no protection against elements or crash. Isn't it much better to make cheap car conversion from say sub 500kg FIAT 500f or some kitcar or ultralight ICE ala Loremo?

http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/206

[JRP3]

How can a much lighter vehicle such as a scooter be less efficient than a heavier car?
On a side note did anyone else notice the chopper scooter near the bottom of this page named "The Toecutter"?

http://www.scooterwerks.com/

[Mesuge]

You have to consider several additional factors when driving electric scooters/motorbikes:
-very bad aerodynamics
-weight upto 250kg (scooters less)
-less comfort
-no protection against weather/elements
-less safety

The consumption of E-max scooter and similar is roughly 4kWh/100km
The consumption of ultralight car like Loremo is ~ 5kWh/100km
The consumption of light EV like based on kitcar/Fiat500 donor ~ 7kWh/100km

--just for comparison some conversion examples--
"light/small" ICE car from today's production >15kWh/100km
Medium sedan >22kWh/100km
SUV >35kWH/100km
--
Now for a cheap conversion you can install the very same components, controller, inverter, charger, battery pack either into a motorcycle or inside a car, so go figure..
It depends on your needs, I'm not trashing light EVs at all, but if you are driving in various weather conditions and distance above 15km, the light car might be a better route. Now, the problem is there are almost no suitable light cars gliders/donors on the market, with the exception of various NEVs. Cars are only gaining weight from the 60-70s..

[JRP3]

Driving conditions are a concern, but I'd think a 2 wheel vehicle could be much more efficient than any car.
You have much less rolling resistance with only 2 narrow tires, much less weight to move, and there is no reason you can't improve the aerodynamics of a 2 wheeler. All my sportbikes had full fairings, which also helped protect you from weather to some degree. Without having to leave large openings to cool an ICE you could make the fairings very slippery.
Since the vehicle is so much lighter you don't need as many batteries, which makes more advanced, expensive battery technology feasible at a reasonable cost.

[BlisteredWhippet]

Most people are mentally and physically unprepared for riding two-wheeled motorized transport.

These bikes will not replace cars to the American mind. This is my theory: the experience of being on a bike in traffic is too scary, too exposed, too different for most people to accept. the premium price is a barrier to entry. There is an existing social stigma attached to these machines. Most people will not be able to handle the experience of being chased, tailgated, threatened, stared at, harassed, and so forth, on the road. Most people will buy them, and hardly ever ride them. Or, they will get the shit scared out of them once and never ride again. Or, they will drop the 450 lb. bike and get an injury and never ride again.

Two-wheeled transport will not replace cars because Americans are accustomed to air conditioning, being dry, being warm, etc. They are not into jumping into a habit that requires practice and mastery, time and effort, will and concentration, to do what cars do without requiring any of those things: going from point A to point B.

The environment is not enough to get them to invest in low-polluting alternatives. Scooters and small motorcycles have been around for a half-century. High-mileage vehicles have existed for a long time. Americans simply choose the safer option. Sure, gas prices will change some amount of this behavior, but a 10,000 scooter is in the realm of the Tesla a high-priced, mostly inaccessible niche market that will have no impact on petroleum consumption or total pollution output.

There will be some fun to be had, tho.

An electric scooter company selling a much, much cheaper elecscooter with a simpler hub motor drive, Evader, just tanked. I would go by their HQ in a business park every day and one day, they were just gone. Scooters are considered toys and for geeks, freaks, and psychotics.

I rolled up one day on my (Vintage) Honda 250 to witness a couple testing the People 250 and Scarabeo 250 in a parking lot. I shit you not, this woman was carting a toy poodle in a belly pack as she awkwardly made a small loop around the parked cars, her heels hovering an inch above the pavement on either side of the floorboard. She complained the scooter was "too heavy".

Scooters are entropic machines. They were invented for people who might work on maintaining them themselves; the cost of ownership increases exponentially for the casual consumer, who will have to rely on mechanics for every part, breakdown, service, and so forth.

The Vectrix is, however, a substantially improved version of previous efforts. Its a bit heavy, in my opinion. But they did get a lot of things right: a reverse gear, regenerative braking, suspension and disc brakes.

In 10 years will batteries be available to replace. In a relocalized economy where bicycles reach low-end scooter capability in terms of hauling a single person at reasonable distances, does a superfast scooter make practical sense? Electric takes care of some interval expenses, but you've still got tires (which will need replacing every 3-5000 miles on the back, a petroleum product. Bearings wear out. Petro-based lubrication. And so forth.

But electrics mean much less parts per construction. Its all good. But I just don't see the pussified American public at large embracing this.

[Starvid]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('HydroLuver', 'I') don't see us ever having an EV SUV.

[Mesuge]

This is clearly SUV rated material by eurostandards but would be considered a mild/small SUV from the US viewpoint. Btw. the platform of the car "Phoenix" is from South Korea if I'm not mistaken..

Also is/was Toyota Rav4 EV (with GM EV1 the best production EV ever) placed under the general SUV flag by the consumers? I doubt it, it's medium-big car even by EU standards..

[gnm]

Wow, a bunch of links and "venture capital" companies selling products that nobody can actually buy. Looks great on paper, now where can I get one?

Oh and they won't mention the price because with Li batteries it will be $100k and only neo green fucktard hollywood-ites will be able to tool around in one...

blah

-G

[Mesuge]

reading challenged? I'll give you the point with Altairnano company in particular, they are OEM only at the moment.

But you can order quality and real life tested chinese or south korean lithium-ion/polymer batteries at $0.3-0.6 per Wh with 1500-3000 deep cycles. You need at least cca 12-20kWh for small passenger car.

That makes economic sense right now if you need/expect to drive several hunderd thousands kms.. In case you are after longer shelf life and less miles driven get instead quality gel from some reputable us/german company or NiMh chemistry..

In terms of your another silly comment, without the freaky hollywood pinkos you would most probably never heard of electric cars in the first place, these guys used their media access to advance something usefull..

Am I jelous of Tom Hanks and his Toyota RAV4 EV and now highend ACP eBox in his garage or the other types with preorders on expensive Tesla - Lotus Roadster?

Pls. rather spend your energy on bashing the real culprits the oillies, bush crime family and others who pushed for delaying the return of electric car for ages..