[lorenzo]

Some quick facts.

1. Diesel engines are roughly 40% more efficient than gasoline engines.
2. Ultra-low sulfur diesel is less polluting than gasoline
3. Knowing this, the average clean diesel car contributes about 50% less greenhouse gasses than a gasoline car
4. 5 to 20% biodiesel blends reduce main greenhouse gas emissions even further by 90 to 95%
5. In the EU, 50% of all cars are diesel, and biodiesel consumption is skyrocketing. In the US, fuel wasting and polluting gasoline still dominates 90% of the car market

In short, if everyone were to switch to bio-diesel blends, we could easily reduce 40% of global fuel consumption. That's simply enormous.

I don't really see what's holding Americans back. Why do they want to be such polluting, fuel wasting people? Why do they keep supporting terrorism and tyranny, while there are simple solutions to avoid this?

I drive a 1.9l clean diesel Volkswagen, and I use B20. I don't support terrorism, nor Dick Cheney.

[Jack]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lorenzo', '
')In short, if everyone were to switch to bio-diesel blends, we could easily reduce 40% of global fuel consumption. That's simply enormous.

I don't really see what's holding Americans back. Why do they want to be such polluting, fuel wasting people? Why do they keep supporting terrorism and tyranny, while there are simple solutions to avoid this?

I drive a 1.9l clean diesel Volkswagen, and I use B20. I don't support terrorism, nor Dick Cheney.

[marek]

If you look at petroleum-derived diesel fuel, it only comprises a small fraction of crude oil. That is why France, which has a dominant diesel fleet, has to import MORE crude oil than it would if it had a more favorable gasoline-to-diesel ratio. After French refineries extract diesel from imported crude, they ship the rest of the gasoline abroad. If France had a more balanced gasoline-to-diesel ratio then they would be consuming the gasoline as well instead of importing extra crude oil to get more diesel. As far as the United States is concerned, it is true that Americans could waste less crude oil by using more diesel, although given that most goods are transported by diesel-powered trucks, it is hard to say how much diesel fuel is not being used. In this country, even most trains (except for the coastal areas) run on diesel, which is a disgrace. What I am saying is not that there is no room for diesel (of course there is). The issue is that there is an optimal balance of diesel to gasoline (France is away from that optimal point, and the U.S. is probably on the other side of the extreme). The best lesson that Americans can learn from Europeans is to drive smaller cars. A soccer mom really doesn't need a Ford Expedition. She would do just as well in a Peugeot 206.

As far as biodiesel is concerned, yes you can make use of old McDonald's oil but growing crops for the purpose of biodiesel is a net energy loser. Here is a summary (slightly biased but nevertheless worthwhile) of why biodiesel is not the answer: http://www.guardian.co.uk/guardianweekly/story/0,,1363756,00.html

[lorenzo]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('marek', 'w')hy biodiesel is not the answer: http://www.guardian.co.uk/guardianweekly/story/0,,1363756,00.html

[MarkR]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he EU's 20% target can be easily met when you outsource a big chunk of the production to Central Africa and South America. Easily. And it would be much cheaper than importing crude or than subsidizing Eurofarmers.

[lorenzo]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MarkR', 'S')o you want to replace one politically unstable energy producing region, with another. One that would also be considerably more vulnerable to weather/climate/disease anomalies?

[Guest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lorenzo', '
')I don't really see what's holding Americans back.

[Guest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lorenzo', 'I') know that article. It is completely flawed, since it takes low yielding crops (like rape and soy) as the basis for biodiesel.
.

[SilverHair]

First of all, how many of you can afford to buy a deisel vehicle and abandon you gasoline vehicle. Remember that if we all made that move our present vehicles would be virtually worthless since nobody would be willing to buy used gasoline vehicles in this mad rush to switch to diesel. This applies to the many farm tractors as well.

Secondly, nature is telling you something when she makes biodiesel cost more than gasoline or petroleum diesel. She is saying that there is a limited amount of energy that I give you each year from the sun, and the difference between what it costs you to extract that yearly energy and the cost of extracting stored petroleum energy is a one time gift that is about to expire.

I am not sure that biodiesel will work except on a limited scale once petroleum diesel is depleted. Since production of suitable plant material will fall without petroleum input the cost of biodiesel will keep increasing. At the point where biodiesel is workable we may be too far gone to make it work.

[Guest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SilverHair', '
')Secondly, nature is telling you something when she makes biodiesel cost more than gasoline or petroleum diesel. She is saying that there is a limited amount of energy that I give you each year from the sun, and the difference between what it costs you to extract that yearly energy and the cost of extracting stored petroleum energy is a one time gift that is about to expire.

[lorenzo]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Anonymous', '
')Now, when you can find a sub $30,000 hybrid diesel, I'll make the switch. Untill then, I'm stuck with the 2 ton diesel truck.

[lorenzo]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Anonymous', '
')Yea....great plan. Yet you are advocating Brazil should go WITH the flawed plan and grow soy.

[lorenzo]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SilverHair', 'S')econdly, nature is telling you something when she makes biodiesel cost more than gasoline or petroleum diesel.

[Guest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lorenzo', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Anonymous', '
')Now, when you can find a sub $30,000 hybrid diesel, I'll make the switch.

[Guest]

What is the energy ratio of biodiesel? energy out/energy in. Is it more than 2? Can it replace oil?

[lorenzo]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Anonymous', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lorenzo', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Anonymous', '
')Now, when you can find a sub $30,000 hybrid diesel, I'll make the switch.

[SilverHair]

How did you arrive at the conclusion that biodiesel from palm is 20% cheaper than petroleum diesel? In you other thread you indicated the current price of palm oil is $71 per barrel.

[lorenzo]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SilverHair', 'H')ow did you arrive at the conclusion that biodiesel from palm is 20% cheaper than petroleum diesel? In you other thread you indicated the current price of palm oil is $71 per barrel.

[SilverHair]

Well then I would say that biodiesel even from palm oil is more expensive than petroleum diesel based on the numbers you are presenting.

Is it realistic to think that the price of palm oil will fall to its historic low? If there is new demand for the oil for making biodiesel, I think the price will go up from where it is now, and not down. How long does it take from planting new trees to the first harvest? What is the current total output of palm oil compared to the amount of petroleum consumed?

Realistically, I think it will take much higher oil prices before any possible switch to biodiesel is workable, and even then, I have questions about viability. Without knowing the details, it took a huge amount of time for the petroleum to be builtup by storing sunlight in a highly inefficient process. Even with the most efficient process available today, how logical is it to think that we can extract energy from the current sunlight available on a yearly basis and convert it to usable energy to replace the huge store from the past.

I agree that biodiesel from something like palm oil or possibly algae, has a better shot than biodiesel from the low oil type crops, and a better shot than solar panels. If palm plantations are a viable answer then I am sure that some brave capatilist will put up his money and profit greatly from it, but I am not holding my breath.

[pip]

The US exports diesel to Europe to fuel all those diesel cars. Europe exports gasoline to the US because most cars are gasoline. There is already a balance there that can't be changed easily.