[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('firestarter', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '
')
And die-off means the death rate will exceed the birth rate.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('HEADER_RACK', ' ') Whats not to understand? If you need a certain amount of something to be able to reach all the four basic necessities of life you are dead. 3 out of 4 just don't cut it.

[HEADER_RACK]

It's like a chain. The further away from self suatainablity a person is the more links we have to add to the chain. Those links can be anything but break one and it's over.
For example (lets use water)If you live in the desert there is hardly any water. So we need pumps to get us our water. Pumps is now a link in the chain. Pumps run on electricity so we add the electricity link to the chain. Piping to run the water so piping becomes a link in that chain. So forth and so on.
If any one of those links break we are cut off from one of our four basic survival necessities. Therefore each link is a necessity to live.
In todays world we have ALOT of links connecting us to our basics for life.

[eric_b]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TonyPrep', 'A')ll I'm saying is that there may be forms of society and forms of food production that are sustainable for a population of 6.5 billion.

[TonyPrep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', 'T')ony, you are grasping at straws and you know it. No studies exist that say it can.

What else would bio-intensive methods kill to increase produciton?

[TonyPrep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', 'A')s people just seem to refuse to grasp, carrying capacity isn't about just feeding people.

[TonyPrep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eric_b', 'G')et him on a jet to Shanghai.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TonyPrep', 'I') don't know why you choose to add adjectives to agriculture as though it can be attached to all forms of food production. Adding adjectives does not prove that small scale bio-intensive is unsustainable.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TonyPrep', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eric_b', 'G')et him on a jet to Shanghai.

[Hawkcreek]

--

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '
')More personal attacks.

Is that the best you got?

I am no more trying to convince people we are doomed than the man in the moon. Dismantling an unsustainable mindset and paradigm is the key to turning this around.

[azreal60]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')hen are you going to get off this kick of believing crap because someone gave it a catchy name - totalitarian agriculture, jeez.

[TonyPrep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', 'Y')ou cannot compete with a kill everything approach.

I never said that bio-intensive was not sustianble, just that it could not equal the yields of conventional, industrial, totalitarian agriculture and feed 6.7 billion people.

Shows us studies to refute this.

[Hawkcreek]

--

[TonyPrep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', 'S')how us studies to support this. Unless you can, it is just wishful thinking and flies in the face of coventional wisdom and solid science.

It also smacks of ..."that just can't be right, they must have forgot something in those studies that say otherwise."

It's called denial.

Tony, you and I usually are on the same page, but we aren't even close on this one.

[PenultimateManStanding]

It would be nice, Monte, if you admitted that I am right about this. You and all the others who say we need to take action now are whistling past the graveyard. It's pretty obvious that nothing will be done. We're going off the cliff, end of story.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Hawkcreek', 'T')here seem to be lots of studies to show that bio-intensive agriculture is more efficient and productive than conventional agriculture.
Here is one:
Ag Study

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he people in Biosphere II in Arizona have been using techniques based on those outlined by Ecology Action: they raised 80 percent of their food for two years within a "closed system." Their experience demonstrates that a complete year's diet for one person can be raised on the equivalent of 3,403 square feet!

This is an improvement over traditional Chinese practices, which required 5,000 to 7,200 square feet. In contrast, it takes commercial agriculture 22,000 to 42,000 square feet to grow all the food for one person for one year, while bringing in large inputs from other areas. At the same time, commercial agricultural practices are causing the loss of approximately six pounds of soil for each pound of food produced.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'F')ace it, Monte, however you try to preserve some objective credibility, it doesn't matter, you are still saying things that no one will believe until it happens.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Hawkcreek', ' ')The whole idea of healthy and productive agriculture is to not kill off all of the competing species. And bio-intensive agriculuture has been shown to have very high yields without the "totalitarian" approach.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'I')t would be nice, Monte, if you admitted that I am right about this. You and all the others who say we need to take action now are whistling past the graveyard. It's pretty obvious that nothing will be done. We're going off the cliff, end of story.