[holmes]

And India and China are NOT sustainable. They are on a crash course. and for the life of me I can not understand why folks would even consider wanting to live like that! People enjoy living on top of one another with massive disease and virus flooding over their bodies. yuk.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('holmes', ' ')
yes PMS the truly important life sustaining things have been nearly destroyed.

[TonyPrep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'I') just have to say, I get tired of people saying "we have exceeded carrying capacity" when we don't know the carrying capacity. We KNOW we have exceeded the carrying capacity for living this way. We can estimate the carrying capacity based on other ways.

[TonyPrep]

Organic Farming Can Feed the World
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'R')esearchers from the University of Michigan found that in developed countries, yields were almost equal on organic and conventional farms. In developing countries, food production could double or triple using organic methods, said Ivette Perfecto, professor at U-M's School of Natural Resources and Environment

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'I')t does seem like a death cult, doesn't it? Personally, I have no idea what the carrying capacity of the US is.

[Hawkcreek]

--

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TonyPrep', ' ')In terms of living a satisfying life, the earth can probably support the population it has now, and maybe more.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TonyPrep', 'I') feel sure that productivity could increase further, if bio-intensive methods were used.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Hawkcreek', ' ')Good to see that someone can tell the difference between probabilities and certainties.

[MonteQuest]

Seems the dominant mindset here is the denial of basic biology and reality.

"We shall overcome the laws of nature."

Mother Nature bats last.

[TonyPrep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', 'D')efine a "satisfying life" and then make it world policy.

Do any of these qualify?

Note that only one considers all the limiting factors. Most just address food.

[Revi]

Rome went from over a million to maybe 14,000 in about 400 years. Once the triremes of wheat stopped coming it got harder and harder to live there. What's the difference between Rome and Phoenix? They are both unsustainable places that will have huge problems soon. Better get out soon.

I agree with Monte about the die off, but I don't intend to be among those who are going to die. Look at Russia. There was a die off there in the 90's and now Moscow is the most expensive city in the world to live in. People like us went from the middle class to the poor. That's why now is the time to put yourself in a sustainable position. Get that solar hot water system up while you have an income. Get some arable land while it's still affordable. Get out of the megalopolis, and into a small town or city that still has drinkable water, safe schools and streets. Rome fell, but people still lived a nice life hundreds of years after the fall in the provinces. They even had the bread and circus. It continues today. The bullfights in Spain are just a descendant of the Roman games (and just as gory and disgusting).

Some of those neglected farms could provide you with a living too. Farmer's markets are opening up to market what you grow. We know how much work and capital it takes to make land productive again. We have a small maple syrup operation, and it's very satisfying to make it work. It's all about getting things up and running now, while we have the resources to make it happen. Soon it will be hard to scrape up enough cash to keep the lights on and the truck running. Don't waste your money on foolish trinkets like SUV's and big screen TV's. It's way too late for that.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TonyPrep', 'I') expect a die-back but don't believe it is technically necessary for sustainability.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', ' ') That's why now is the time to put yourself in a sustainable position. Get that solar hot water system up while you have an income. Get some arable land while it's still affordable. Get out of the megalopolis, and into a small town or city that still has drinkable water, safe schools and streets.

[TonyPrep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TonyPrep', 'I') expect a die-back but don't believe it is technically necessary for sustainability.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TonyPrep', ' ')There is no doubt, in my mind, that we are in overshoot for the kind of societies we have, the kinds of lifestyles we have, our methods of food production and processing, and so on.

All I'm saying is that I think it's possible that the earth could sustain its current population, with fairly satisfying lifestyles, if many changes are made, in a timely fashion (though the changes themselves could result in some die-back).

[dinopello]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', 'M')any studies have shown that if we shared the existing resources (energy, food, raw materials, etc) of the world equitably, we would all have to live like they do in Bangladesh.

Satisfying lifestyle?

[TonyPrep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', 'M')any studies have shown that if we shared the existing resources (energy, food, raw materials, etc) of the world equitably, we would all have to live like they do in Bangladesh.

Satisfying lifestyle?

[I_Like_Plants]

Look, go to dieoff.org and read up on every prior Empire before ours, and remember that every Empire was formed by people just as smart as we are.

Ours will be the biggest, most spectacular crash of them all! We're no.1!!

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TonyPrep', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', 'N')ot possible to sustain the current population with any conceivable energy or food production regime.