[Plantagenet]

Purcatty's post estimates how many barrels of oil it would take to put a man in orbit or send a ship to Mars.

Most illogical.

Spaceships don't run on oil.

[Judgie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('basil_hayden', '[')url=http://www.peakoil.com/fortopic28813.html]read purcatty's posts on this thread[/url]

Eloquently presented, me thinks.

[manu]

Yes, they can start to do that, right after they start to import all that green cheese from the moon.

[Newsseeker]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('manu', 'Y')es, they can start to do that, right after they start to import all that green cheese from the moon.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newsseeker', 't')he monoliths appear and turn Jupiter into a second sun.

[Plantagenet]

[web]http://esamultimedia.esa.int/images/cassini_huygens/PIA06240_H.jpg[/web]


It rains methane on Titan. The ESA pic shows a lake of liquid hydrocarbon (probably methane or ethane) on Titan.

[Tyler_JC]

Can I just say that this is my FAVORITE thread?

Methane from Jupiter...LOL.

Hell, even if the moon was a Cadbury Egg full of gasoline, it still wouldn't matter.

If there EROEI is negative, it's a waste of time.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'I')f there EROEI is negative, it's a waste of time.

[OilIsMastery]

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/artic ... E_ID=47675

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]'Fossil fuel' theory takes hit with NASA finding

New study shows methane on Saturn's moon Titan not biological

NASA scientists are about to publish conclusive studies showing abundant methane of a non-biologic nature is found on Saturn's giant moon Titan, a finding that validates a new book's contention that oil is not a fossil fuel.

"We have determined that Titan's methane is not of biologic origin," reports Hasso Niemann of the Goddard Space Flight Center, a principal NASA investigator responsible for the Gas Chromatograph Mass Spectrometer aboard the Cassini-Huygens probe that landed on Titan Jan. 14.

Niemann concludes the methane "must be replenished by geologic processes on Titan, perhaps venting from a supply in the interior that could have been trapped there as the moon formed."

The studies announced by NASA yesterday will be reported in the Dec. 8 issue of the scientific journal Nature.

"This finding confirms one of the key arguments in 'Black Gold Stranglehold: The Myth of Scarcity and the Politics of Oil,'" claims co-author Jerome R. Corsi. "We argue that oil and natural gas are abiotic products, not 'fossil fuels' that are biologically created by the debris of dead dinosaurs and ancient forests."

Methane has been synthetically created in the laboratory, Corsi points out, "and now NASA confirms that abiotic methane is abundantly found on Titan."

The realization that hydrocarbons are produced inorganically throughout our solar system was a key insight that led Cornell University astronomer Thomas Gold to write his 1998 book, "The Deep Hot Biosphere: The Myth of Fossil Fuels." Gold wrote:

It would be surprising indeed if the earth had obtained its hydrocarbons only from a source that biology had taken from another carbon-bearing gas – carbon dioxide – which would have been collected from the atmosphere by photo-synthesizing organisms for manufacture into carbohydrates and then somehow reworked by geology into hydrocarbons. All this, while the planetary bodies bereft of surface life would have received their hydrocarbon gifts by purely abiogenic causes.

Gold wryly noted that he was sure there had not been any "big stagnant swamps on Titan" to produce the biological debris that conventionally trained geologists think was required on Earth to produce oil and natural gas as a "fossil fuel."

"If petroleum and natural gas are abiotic as we maintain in 'Black Gold Stranglehold,'" Corsi commented, "then the 'peak oil' fear that we are going to run out of oil may have been based on a giant misconception."

Paradigms in science change slowly and with great resistance, he noted, "But NASA has given us today incontrovertible evidence that Titan has abundant inorganic methane."

"If the scientists have ruled out that biological processes created methane on Titan, why do petro-geologists still argue that natural gas on Earth is of biological origin?" Corsi asked.

[TheDude]

You again!

List of molecules in interstellar space.

Acetone, Propanal, Benzene among them. Yeah, methane too. Up to ten or more atoms. What, do you think it's Wookie pee or something?

[Plantagenet]

Clearly there is some abiotic methane and clearly there is some biogas and organically produced methane.

The two hypotheses are not mutually exclusive. Methane can form in various ways.

Titan has 100% abiotic methane. The earth is a rather different place.

[OilIsMastery]

Is there any evidence at all that shows hydrocarbons are so-called "fossil" fuels?

If natural gas is abiogenic, what makes us think petroleum isn't abiogenic?

And if hydrocarbons are biogenic, is there life on Saturn VI aka Titan?

[BigTex]

If oil is abiotic, aren't we still in trouble, since apparently the abiotic underground oil fountains are replenishing the oil deposits more slowly than we are draining them?

[Tongue in cheek]

If something is running out faster than it is being replenished the fact that there may be an infinite supply is not the least bit helpful.

[Kingcoal]

Methane is very common in the solar system. The earth probably contained an enormous amount of it in its early life. Then the moon formed. The moon was formed out of a cataclysmic collision between the earth and a similar sized planet in the same orbit. Both planets were destroyed and the result was the earth and the moon. After the collision, the earth remained completely molten for a long time. During that time, the moon was so close it blanked out 1/3 of the sky causing huge tides that acted as a "blender," stirring the pot molten of materials in the earth. This process caused the earth to slowly stratify; that is, the heavy elements sunk to the core and the lighter elements (methane for one) rose to the surface. Methane slowly out gassed over the millennia. It's a good thing for us that this collision happened, otherwise we probably wouldn't be here. Without a magnetic field to deflect the solar wind, the earth's atmosphere would have "blown away" a long time ago.

This process didn't happen on Mars, that's why mars doesn't have a magnetic field and is covered in iron oxide. When the planets first formed, they were nothing but rubble piles that compressed into solid spheres. The elements were randomly spread out though the body. On earth, the heavy elements are found in veins left over from volcanic vents. If it weren't for volcanism, we probably wouldn't have any heavy metals to play with - they would be trapped in the molten core.

The fact that Titan has a lot of methane constantly out gassing does not prove abiotic theory. The Earth is a different kind of body, with a different history. I don't doubt that primordial methane does outgas from earth, but the evidence is overwhelming that the natural gas that we find under salt domes was created from organic debris.

[mekrob]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')f natural gas is abiogenic, what makes us think petroleum isn't abiogenic?

[eastbay]

...then that means that oil is produced by the Earth abiotically at a rate of less than 1000 barrels per year. We burn 1000 barrels just about every second.

Ok, let me see if I follow you. If we cut our worldwide petroleum use to about 1,000 bp year everything should work out just fine. Everyone will then agree that peak oil is a myth and we can all move on to something else.

Is that correct?

[mekrob]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')s that correct?

[BigTex]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mekrob', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')f natural gas is abiogenic, what makes us think petroleum isn't abiogenic?

[eastbay]

Are you serious

Of course not you silly rabbit.... but then again, we're getting older and our 'humors' are getting scrambled up.

Maybe we should do this: (joke) when we joke to make it clearer for everyone.