[grabby]

This has no effect on our crises withn 5 years.

[dub_scratch]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Torjus', 'I')t would be nice to bring in some extra hydrocarbons to burn, just to make sure that Global Warming really kicks in!

Torjus Gaaren

[Kylon]

Not useful for energy purposes,

but if we could seed some bacteria there, that have been adapted to a similar environment to titans atomsphere, we may save life from extinction, that way 200 million or 500 million or however long it takes to develop a new highly advanced species will pop right back up.

We could even plant multicellular critters that feed off the methane, nitrogen, and (hopefully) some oxygen on the planet.

I think we should begin seeding other planets, because we are destroying this planet at an alarming rate.

Plus, it would be nice to know that future species could deal with other species in the future.

I think we should seed all possibly somewhat habitable planets, just to make sure that life continues when we die.

[mekrob]

Oh thank God. I've been trying to explain to my parents why they should move there. Now who looks like an idiot.

[Kylon]

Oh also, as the sun beguns to burn hotter and hotter, the outer planets within like 200-500 million years, would slowly get a better and better climate for life.

[lateralus]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lighthouse', 'S')hiny. Lets move to Titan, build superhighways and use the Methane there.

[Rod_Cloutier]

Even if methane can't be extracted from the gas giants in the solar system, I think people should still be looking at mining these other planets in our solar system for other resources.

With the loss of bio-diversity, and wildlife problems here on Earth, an easy solution is to mine other nearby planets that have no ecology and have no enviroments to protect. We could pollute and strip mine at leisure on these planets, giving our own life giving planet a time to rest and recover from out activities.

I don't understand why everyone who has responded to my article is taken aback by these very real possibilities?

[sciencegirl]

I think getting methane from Jupiter would be a dangerous trip, and time consuming. A better idea might be to put large solar panels in space because they would get 24 hr a day exposure. The asteroid belt would also be a great place to get to get metals, like iron, gold, silver etc....but that would most likely need a base of operations on mars. So you would need to have a outpost and a mining factory.

For Peal oil though I think earth has to do this.

1. Built better homes (insulation wise) like straw bale

2. Solar panels for our gadgets, and getting rid of energy suckers like large screen TV's

3. We will have to wait for fusion to come to fruitation, that should eventually give us tons of energy, and a switch to electric cars. This will take much time.

4. Antimatter (go start trek) is very hard to make/gather, but if we ever find an easier method to harvest antimatter it would give us near unlimited energy, just don't blow up the planet.


Just hope we survive long enough first. Peak oil will one hell of a shock.

[sciencegirl]

Repent, I agree with you that we should move into space exploration because their are lots of recourses, but to go to Jupiter and back would take 20 years with current technology, and to get enough methane for the people of earth to use, you would need a ship about 1/4 the size of our moon. That ship would take 100 years to make. The first thing we should do is build colonies on the moon and on mars, and then gather minerals in the asteroid belt. We could ask our scientists which stars are most likely to have planets and send out a few space probes. Maybe we will find another earth like planet.
All these things will come eventually if mankind does not kill itself first. We are still a type 0 civillization

[netpaw]

Now I am just a little curious as how people who belive the "fossil fuel" theory or "peak oil" view any news that relates to Titan ( Saturns moon for the uninformed ). Now I realise that if someone were to mention Titan and the hydrocarbons ( Methane aka natural gas ) that are being generated beneath it's surface the "peak oil" prophets would quite rightly say that shipping gas from Titan via space tankers to earth in order to alleviate the "energy crisis" is ludicrous. So lets agree that it will never happen from the outset ok. What I would like to know is how do you ( That is the "peak oilers" ) explain how a "fossil fuel" ( Methane ) is being generated in large quantities on a planetary body with an atmosphere that leaks like a sieve ( and we can assume that this has been happening for billions of years ) when Titan does not support biological life. I also realise that "peak oilers" acknowledge that Methane can be produced abiotically ( but in such small amounts to be worthles ) then how is it that vast amounts are being generated as we speak deep inside Titan ? I would also like to know since science has proven that Methane can be generated abiotically ( and this has been done in a lab ) that is indistinguishable from Methane that is supposed to be of biogenic origin then how do you actually know that any sources of Methane on earth is actually of biogenic oriogins at all ? Links to any scientific studies or even just some thoughtful comments would be appreciated. The reason I ask this is because we have been able to observe on a planetary body ( ok moon then but it does have an atmosphere ) where the traditional ( fossil fuel ) theory of methane origins does not seem to apply. Would this not be significant when discussing the origins of Methane ( a hydrocarbon ) hear on earth ? Would that not throw a rather large spanner in the whole "peak oil" theory ?

Cheers

[basil_hayden]

Compositional differentiation across the solar system explains the presence of liquids such as methane on the outer planets and their moons, just like it explains why continental crust overlies the mantle on Earth.

Differentiation

[netpaw]

Thank you.

Off to bed now but will read that properly after work tomorow... but does that explain how the methane is being generatd within Titan ? They know it is regenerating because of the fact that so much of it escapes through the atmosphere hence the reason I assume that the same process that is occuring now on Titan could be happening on earth.

[NEOPO]

Thoughtful comments: It is highly recommended that one assume nothing,"search" these forums before posting and therefore avoid the high probability of one day having the unpleasant task of pulling one's own foot out of one's own arse.

Believe me - it hurts

This has been discussed in depth on other threads:

here: Import methane from Jupiter?

here: Evidence of hydrocarbon lakes on Titan

here: Harvesting hydrocarbons from Titan: not feasible.

here: Methane Rains, Riverbeds Found on Titan

and here: hydrocarbons of Titan

Enjoy!

Sorry to be critical yet I view our problems as addiction and I view the abiotic theory and anything tied to it as denial which certainly helps me explain the actions of the gaurdians of this great big sanitarium we call earth.

Curious - how do you know Methane is being "generated" on Titan?

The presence of a substance is just that but it does not prove current generation yet some of us certainly are hoping so!!
I suggest that is a good example of just how "high" on hydrocarbons we are

It is easier to cast the shadow of doubt then it is to remove it.

[EnergyUnlimited]

There is a long thread about abiotic oil on this forum.

It is no so relevant to argue about oil/NG being biotic or abiotic if you realize, that our wells go dry, gas reserves empty and they do not appear to refill at all and also we are finding fewer and fewer new reserves each year for last decades despite of search methods improoved.
Even if oil/NG on Earth is abiotic and reserves could be restocked within 10 000 years (very optimistic assumption) by some chemical process in the mantle, it would still be "too little, too late" for OUR civilization - means useless for all practical purpose.

You may note that methane, ammonia etc WERE major constituents of Earth atmosphere before life evolved.

[Pablo2079]

Just read "Imperial Earth" by Arthur C. Clarke. A big part of the premise of the book is getting Hydrogen from the moons of Saturn and sending it back to Earth. It was interesting to read his view of the future, especially since this was written in the 70's.

[ChumpusRex2]

If we are going to obtain fuel from space, it could only be for nuclear fuels.

As has already been stated in this thread, to lift 1 kg of methane off the surface of Jupiter requires the energy stored in 70 kg of methane (and that's assuming 100% efficiency).

In practice, you'd need to expend about 200 kg worth of methane to get 1 kg worth. This doesn't seem like a practical proposition.

Even hydrogen, with its outstanding energy/weight ratio, is far too heavy to be retrievable. You'll consume many times more energy as you'd ever get back. There's simply no way around this.

However, if you could get fuels which are thousands or millions of times more concentrated than methane (which nuclear fuels like deuterium or Helium-3 are) then this could be a feasible option. As it is, the easily obtainable terrestrial resource of deuterium is so large, as to be unlimited (no matter how much energy humanity consumes, it would not be possible to deplete this resource for the expected life of the solar system) - so it seems pointless to look further afield.

[sciencegirl]

Jupiter Mining Corperation - looking for crew to stay and work aboard our ship the Red Dwarf. Don't worry we have never had a radiation leak.

[paoniapbud]

Right, this thread is moot. We've discussed this ad nauseum. Let's move on to the doom please...

[eric_b]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('netpaw', 'T')hank you.

Off to bed now but will read that properly after work tomorow... but does that explain how the methane is being generatd within Titan ? They know it is regenerating because of the fact that so much of it escapes through the atmosphere hence the reason I assume that the same process that is occuring now on Titan could be happening on earth.