[MacG]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smiley', 'S')o if a author claims that all his articles are rejected by a number of journals, he would be wise to consider the possibility that there are some major deficiencies in his theories that need reconsideration rather than to blame it on a worldwide conspiracy.

[killJOY]

Wow, I haven't seen these theories reprised in years.

I went through a "doubt HIV" phase, via SPIN magazine, about ten years ago. There's no shame in doubting and investigating.

But that was then.

Now, I'm of the mind that HIV causes AIDS, period. That's not to say that other infections that weaken one's immune system don't contribute to the decline of those with AIDS. But HIV is the causative factor.

I have MANY friends who owe their lives to AZT and anti-viral drugs.

Get over Duesberg.

[Zardoz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MacG', 'A') couple of examples:

-Oil is finite, and will run out
-HIV might not be the cause of AIDS
-Carbon dioxide might not cause global warming

[MacG]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MacG', 'A') couple of examples:

-Oil is finite, and will run out
-HIV might not be the cause of AIDS
-Carbon dioxide might not cause global warming

[smallpoxgirl]

Peter Duesberg staked a claim to chemically induced AIDS back in the 80s. It was understandable. A lot of people were looking into environmental causes. There was a pretty firm statistical link established between Amyl Nitrate use and AIDS. It was an important lesson in an old axiom "correlation is not causation". Turns out the reason Amyl Nitrate use correlates with AIDS is that people who use Amyl Nitrate tend to have anonymous anal sex with lots of people and get infected with HIV. Since the discovery of HIV, I don't think anyone in the medical field has much use for the chemical AIDS theories. That is not because we're all paid pawns of the pharmaceutical industry. You have to understand a how doctors think. The way to really make a name for yourself as a doctor is to really shake up the status quo. If you could produce convincing proof that AIDS wasn't caused by HIV, you could get yourself a Nobel prize and an appointment to any university faculty in the world. If such a paper could be written, it would have been written a long time ago. Such a paper can't be written, because it's simply factually not true, ergo the proof does not exist. Even one HIV negative patient dying with AIDS would often be enough to warrant a scientific paper. If Dueberg was right, 99.8% of AIDS patients should be HIV negative which simply doesn't happen.

Rather than move on to some new and more salient topic, Peter Duesberg, has continued to beat the dead horse of environmental AIDS so long that it has rotten and gone and all he has left is a xylophone of bleached rib bones. He has been picked up as the patron saint of all the pissed off people with AIDS that are looking for some way to blame the government, most notably San Francisco Act Up. Much like the "911 truth" crowd, they really don't care much for the factual basis of the argument as long as it sounds superficially convincing and gives them a good opportunity to rail at the government. The other major reason he hasn't faded into obscurity is that there are an awful lot of gay men out there that are HIV negative and are in relationships with partners who are positive. They would desperately like to believe that they are not committing suicide by continuing the relationship. Duesberg gives them a warm little delusional space to crawl into.

Much like the "911 truth" crowd, Duesberg, lacking a single convincing argument patches together as quiltwork of different theories. I think the basic idea is to make it so damned laborious to disprove all the theories that most people won't make the effort. The obvious proof that AZT isn't the cause of AIDS is to be found in the current treatment protocols for HIV, i.e. watchful waiting. What? Ohh yeah. Infectious Disease docs changed how they treat HIV a few years back. The current deal is that you don't put people on meds until the T cell counts drop to an unacceptable level. So how can AZT be causing immunodeficiency if it's only being given to people after they develop immunodeficiency? The other unavoidable reality is that 0.16% of the US population is HIV positive, and 100% of patients with AIDS are HIV positive. You want a good government conspiracy theory vis a via AIDS, go read And The Band Played On. Duesberg is a crank and he gets people killed.

[cynicalheretic]

If you believe the shit in the video, then you are wasting my oxygen. You are simply the world biggest RETARD!!!

It's simply amazing the lack of intelligence that a board about a scientific issues such as peak oil can attract.

Nothing in that video is remotely close to being real, and if your going to believe it... I got some nice swamp land I would like to sell you.

WOW. You guys are some seriously stupid fucktards!!!

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cynicalheretic', 'I')f you believe the shit in the video, then you are wasting my oxygen. You are simply the world biggest RETARD!!!

It's simply amazing the lack of intelligence that a board about a scientific issues such as peak oil can attract.

Nothing in that video is remotely close to being real, and if your going to believe it... I got some nice swamp land I would like to sell you.

WOW. You guys are some seriously stupid fucktards!!!

[dukey]

[flash width=400 height=326]http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=3983706668483511310&hl=en[/flash]

[smallpoxgirl]

This is just such utter tripe.

"No one has ever seen HIV"

Let me help you out. Here's a transmission electron micrograph:


Maybe you'd prefer a scanning electron micrograph:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')canning electron micrograph of HIV-1 budding from cultured lymphocyte. Multiple round bumps on cell surface represent sites of assembly and budding of virions.
Image by:Centers for Disease Control/Public Domain
Source: GBGM Administration

[MacG]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cynicalheretic', 'I')f you believe the shit in the video, then you are wasting my oxygen. You are simply the world biggest RETARD!!!

It's simply amazing the lack of intelligence that a board about a scientific issues such as peak oil can attract.

Nothing in that video is remotely close to being real, and if your going to believe it... I got some nice swamp land I would like to sell you.

WOW. You guys are some seriously stupid fucktards!!!

[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MacG', 'P')lease note, once again, that I don't have an opinion about Duesberg, but I find these reactions interesting.

[MacG]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MacG', 'P')lease note, once again, that I don't have an opinion about Duesberg, but I find these reactions interesting.

[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MacG', 'H')mm.. I notice that you use quite another line of argumentation than Duesberg...

[kam300en]

What a bunch of crap. HIV is the idiot's disease....just like lotto is a tax on idiots. If you are dumb enough to have unprotected sex with random people or share needles, maybe you deserve an early death. Anyone with an ounce of willpower can avoid getting HIV, even in Africa. I do however, have sympathy for [the tiny percentage of] people who contracted the disease from blood transfusions or from their mothers. I'm sure if you made a graph of IQ level and HIV prevalence, you'd see a strong correlation. BTW, I'm not sure what all this talk of the difference between HIV and AIDS is, AIDS is just end-stage HIV. Here from wikipedia:

"Aids is a collection of symptoms and infections resulting from the specific damage to the immune system caused by the human immunodeficiency virus HIV". HIV damages the immune system....end of story.

[MacG]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MacG', 'H')mm.. I notice that you use quite another line of argumentation than Duesberg...

[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MacG', ' ')I'm an interested by-stander noticing that a couple of hundred scientists appear to have dissenting opinions concerning HIV and AIDS.

[TommyJefferson]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MacG', 'I') find these reactions interesting.

[NEOPO]

Hmmm last I checked a couple HUNDRED scientists believed in UFO/ALIENS, the potentiality of 11 dimensions and 9.11 truth

Would anyone like to comment on how MK ultra/Operation Paperclip influenced Science and more specifically Medical Science?

Still drinking Flouride?

[dukey]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')ote that the original poster in this thread has NO reaction to the concise refutation SPG was kind enough to provide.

[jupiters_release]

HIV/AIDS hoax does not really bother me, its just another population mitigation business that TPTB had to use, to look at the problem honestly as Al Bartlett said, there's no moral solution to exponential growth of population.

What I do find most disturbing though is how fragile the mythologies of the people who've posted throughout this thread are. This level of fear is unhealthy.