[nwildmand]

i will not give up meat. i dont care if i have to kill your dog to get it.

sure a person can live as a vegetarian in this world, but in one with a lack of resources and food options, its just a slow suicide.

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nwildmand', 's')ure a person can live as a vegetarian in this world, but in one with a lack of resources and food options, its just a slow suicide.

[nwildmand]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nwildmand', 's')ure a person can live as a vegetarian in this world, but in one with a lack of resources and food options, its just a slow suicide.

[oowolf]

(Pardon me if I interrupt this thread on its way to the HOF) but
what about insects?
Can veg-a-whatevers eat insects? I mean intentionally, as we all eat them inadvertently. They're a good source of B12, and a valuable part of the Paleo diet.

[billg]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('oowolf', '(')Pardon me if I interrupt this thread on its way to the HOF) but
what about insects?
Can veg-a-whatevers eat insects? I mean intentionally, as we all eat them inadvertently. They're a good source of B12, and a valuable part of the Paleo diet.

[seldom_seen]

when I hear talk of 'dancing rabbit eco villages' and 'food politics' I reach for my sixgun.

[TheTurtle]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('billg', ' ') On the other hand, I do see a big difference ethically between taking the life of a grasshopper or a trout and taking the life of one of the formentioned animals.

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheTurtle', 'S')o basically, you won't eat mammals? How about chicken and other fowl?

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheTurtle', 'S')o basically, you won't eat mammals? How about chicken and other fowl?

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'C')hickens are very cuddly

[zoidberg]

Since when did we become so disassociated with the rest of life on earth that eating meat is somehow distasteful? We're designed to have some meat in our diet, and life eats other life on Earth. Its ok, morally, to eat animals, and to raise them so we can harvest their flesh. I personally wouldn't want to work in a slaughterhouse, but I dont think we shouldn't have them.

Maybe that strikes you as callous, and it is I suppose, but welcome to reality baby!

Top of the food chain! BOOYAH!

It wasn't that long ago those damned sabre tooth tigers were eating our babies. If you ask me vegans and their dietary brothers suffer from a sort of human exceptionalism that would disappear pretty quickly when food got short, and hunger compels you to kill that chicken with your bare hands and cook it.

[rdberg1957]

The question about whether or not to give up meat is not trivial and does involve ethical as well as health issues. Humans cannot long eat a diet entirely of meat because our organs will not tolerate the stress of processing the proteins. We are not carnivores. Nor are we herbivores by nature, but that is a more viable option for humans that becoming carniverous.

The ethical issues involved will become more serious as resources become depleted. Will I countenance the inability of some to eat at all so I can continue eating meat the way I always have? Traditionally, during the period of most recorded history, meat has been a luxury, afforded only by those with wealth or the ability to hunt and trap. Because of cheap energy, growth in the production and consumption of relatively inexpensive meat has been possible. When that cheap energy is no longer there, I expect the price of meat will rise beyond the means of most, save the wealthiest among us. Some ethical questions will be answered by economics.

Personally, I am an omnivore, with a penchant for dairy, meat, eggs, fish and fowl. It has not always served me well, as I am definitely among the very overweight. I have not suffered from binges of great amounts of food with much frequency. Nor do I eat huge portions by oversized American standards. I start to lose weight when I change the balance away from flesh and dairy toward more fruits and vegetables and small amounts of grain. I try to do this with only limited success as i am greatly drawn to high-fat flesh, char-broiled.

When I eat more vegetables, soy, beans, fruits, fish, whole grains, nuts, I am most satisfied with small portions of meat (3-4 oz) and dairy, a few times a week, and my body thanks me.

Personally, I am willing to adapt my diet so that more people can be well-fed or so that fewer will starve. As much as I pursue the pleasures of the flesh (in this context, I am only referring to its consumption as food), I am quite capable of enjoying well-prepared vegetarian fare.

I am uncertain of the economics around meat consumption vis a vis peak oil. I'm assuming that the prices of all commodities will rise as oil is involved in the production and transport of all agricultural products. I'm also believing that the price of meat will rise at a higher rate due to larger energy inputs into raising cattle, pigs, and fowl.

I certainly don't wish for the elimination of meat from the food supply, but I will not fight tooth and nail as would some, to keep meat's central role in the American diet. However, I am certain of this: it will be economics, not ethics, which will produce the greatest changes in the consumption of meat all around the world.

[WisJim]

I don't object to eating meat, but I prefer it in moderation, for my own diet. I try not to eat products imported from great distances, or raised or grown by industrial methods. Our beef is raised by people we know, as is our milk, pork, buffalo, and other meats. Our chicken and eggs are our own for the most part, and supplemented at times by purchased chicken, again locally, from people we know. We also eat venison from our property, and I would eat our wild turkeys, too, but we live in town and they are a difficult target with a bow. (We can bow hunt but no guns in the city limits.)

Even though we buy most of the meat we eat now, I have butchered every kind of animal that we eat, and think that I have a better feeling for what is involved in making the choice to eat meat.

[billg]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '
')
Why would a compassionate person spare the lobster, stomp on the ant, and devour the brocolli? Compassion is universal, selective, personal, and political. All else is taboo.

[billg]

Pertinent to this thread, I think it is interesting to note that our closest genetic relative, the chimpanzee, has a diet that is primarily vegan.

Genetic similarity

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')cientists from the Wayne State University, School of Medicine, Detroit, US, examined key genes in humans and several ape species and found our "life code" to be 99.4% the same as chimps.
They propose moving common chimps and another very closely related ape, bonobos, into the genus, Homo, the taxonomic grouping researchers use to classify people in the animal kingdom.

[grabby]

In truth, the arms race has not produced a clear winner, and that is excellent news so far, BUT because Mutual Assured Destruction remains in effect AND Russia still has more nuclear warheads than the US, and has supersonic cruise missile technology that can penetrate any missile shield, especially a nonexistent one. We seem to conveniently ignore this, when it is actually the most important fact we need to remember. ALL the governments are itching for a way to drastically cut out population, and it may even be entertained if most of the population cut will be "the other guy", does this make sense? And with GPS, the one who SHOOTS FIRST may actually win all the Bananas. It is certain it is coming and it will most likely be peak oil related, good probability. Soon...


I advise all who want to survive to learn to eat vegan and get to like it. When the stored jerky runs out, you won't have meat. It would be too dangerous. Animals are concentrators for nuclear radiation, and it would be the last food to eat after the "disagreement" that could present.

Cover the veges with a tarp cloth the first few days when dark clouds are rolling and before eating peal them and wash them well. Potatoes and root vegetables will be the majority of our food for months. Best to plant lots of potatoes and root crops the first season after the exchanges.
But meat, that will be the last thing you will eat, and milk would be for the suicidal.
Radiation ingestion: ugly way to die, takes several months and the last few weeks they scream constantly in pain. You also turn yellow like a pumkin and itch until you bleed. Your sweat is radioactive and is actually dangerous for your family to touch. Nasty. (The hospitals won't have morphine, it will all be gone. )
Its easy to get used to vegan, and it isn't so bad, we are practicing already, you will be healthier for it anyway. One of my assiciates who kept making fun of me and tempting me with his high protein diet (takes the buns off his big macs, Just bacon and scrambled eggs please) just had Quintuple bypass surgery. Stubborn guy though, still eats meat.
Vegan eating is much cheaper.

Open range animals could be dead anyway, after the change-time, so eventually you would have to go vegan. Course you could wait till then... Vegan diet is basic survival for post holo scenario for those who were not living in a city at the moment of change-time who did not take the easy way out.

[BlisteredWhippet]

Anyone who can't stomach disciplined veganism is toast in a post-nuclear world.

Sounds true enough.

[frankthetank]

I just tried a couple boca burgers last night. Actually there pretty good smoothered in ketchup or A1 or something. Top them with some onion or tomato...not bad substitute. I eat meat rarely, and only pork when i do. I don't really care for chicken anymore, and turkey is only good cooked whole in the oven like during thanksgiving. Herd of deer here in WI is infected with cwd, with no answers on if or if it doesn't harm humans, so thats good to know! Oh well, i like root crops.

African's avg almost 500 pounds of bananas a year per person (including plantains)...