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How can the Peak Oil Aware be Anti-War?

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Re: How can the Peak Oil Aware be Anti-War?

Unread postby Revi » Wed 08 Nov 2006, 09:08:02

We may not have the resources to have the big wars we had in the 20th century. Lots of people may die in tribal conflicts, however. None of it is fun. Did you ever read Sun Tzu's "Art of War". Wars should be used strategically. In the Civil War they called it "seeing the elephant" for those who had seen the horrible reality of war. Seen the elephant?
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Re: How can the Peak Oil Aware be Anti-War?

Unread postby SDC » Wed 08 Nov 2006, 11:44:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', 'W')e may not have the resources to have the big wars we had in the 20th century. Lots of people may die in tribal conflicts, however. None of it is fun. Did you ever read Sun Tzu's "Art of War". Wars should be used strategically. In the Civil War they called it "seeing the elephant" for those who had seen the horrible reality of war. Seen the elephant?


This entire post, but especially the sentance in bold, is basically my opinion of war.
I might be wrong.
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Re: How can the Peak Oil Aware be Anti-War?

Unread postby Ludi » Wed 08 Nov 2006, 14:12:51

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kam30en', '.')..personally I'd rather die in a war than starve to death.


I keep missing where you've said you've signed up, kam. Where will you be trained, do you know?
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Re: How can the Peak Oil Aware be Anti-War?

Unread postby emersonbiggins » Wed 08 Nov 2006, 14:27:20

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SDC', '.') I do believe that if it is the only way to keep the American populace alive for the next 1-10 years, war is justified.


Keep the American populace alive, or obliviously toting along in a real estate bubble driving H2s until kingdom come?

There is a difference.

Our creature comforts aren't worth the killing of innocent civilians.
"It's called the American Dream because you'd have to be asleep to believe it."

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Re: How can the Peak Oil Aware be Anti-War?

Unread postby Revi » Wed 08 Nov 2006, 14:51:01

This war may have been fought for defensive purposes. We may have thought that it would help us to be able to continue using the enormous amount of oil and other junk we have become accustomed to. Now that will dwindle whether we stay in there or go. Why stay?
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Re: How can the Peak Oil Aware be Anti-War?

Unread postby Ingenuity_Gap » Wed 08 Nov 2006, 15:14:37

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SDC', 'H')owever, diplomacy and subterfuge would probably have worked far better in this case.


Now we're talking.

Diplomacy is infinitely more elegant than war. Only diplomacy and subterfuge need brains, patience and perseverance. Waging war is much easier, especially when you have the best weapons.
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Re: How can the Peak Oil Aware be Anti-War?

Unread postby mekrob » Wed 08 Nov 2006, 15:59:58

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ingenuity_Gap', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SDC', 'H')owever, diplomacy and subterfuge would probably have worked far better in this case.


Now we're talking.

Diplomacy is infinitely more elegant than war. Only diplomacy and subterfuge need brains, patience and perseverance. Waging war is much easier, especially when you have the best weapons.


Kinda like the saying: "Profanity is the crutch of inarticulate motherfuckers." => "War is the crutch of incompetent leaders"
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Re: How can the Peak Oil Aware be Anti-War?

Unread postby AgentR » Wed 08 Nov 2006, 16:01:46

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ingenuity_Gap', 'D')iplomacy is infinitely more elegant than war. Only diplomacy and subterfuge need brains, patience and perseverance. Waging war is much easier, especially when you have the best weapons.


Diplomacy doesn't create Bomb Cam Video.
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Re: How can the Peak Oil Aware be Anti-War?

Unread postby kam30en » Wed 08 Nov 2006, 16:38:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '"')War is the crutch of incompetent leaders"


This is the most bogus, wimpy, WRONG thing I think I've ever heard. Sitting around waiting to get attacked and allowing your enemies to build their armies and devise strategies. Building walls and allowing the barbarian hordes to assemble on the other side. This is the pastime of weak fools. Genghis Khan, the most successful man in history (he has more direct descendants than any other man) didn't sit down and decide not to go to war. He waged war against people who were foreign to him and who he didn't care about. He took whatever they had and made it his. Was it fair....no, was it natural...yes. Was Genghis Khan incompetent....hardly, were his enemies.....absolutely.
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Re: How can the Peak Oil Aware be Anti-War?

Unread postby Dreamtwister » Wed 08 Nov 2006, 17:00:12

Who's your CO kam? You requested infantry, right?
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Re: How can the Peak Oil Aware be Anti-War?

Unread postby TheTurtle » Wed 08 Nov 2006, 17:02:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'I') keep missing where you've said you've signed up, kam. Where will you be trained, do you know?


It has been my experience, Ludi, that those who bang the drum the loudest have most likely never served, and those who have served, by and large, don't bang the drum. But of course you already know that.

If kam, speccop and their ilk would just act as they preach, surely they could win this war tomorrow, eh? :roll:
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Re: How can the Peak Oil Aware be Anti-War?

Unread postby Lighthouse » Wed 08 Nov 2006, 17:19:21

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kam30en', 'Y')es, NEOPO, this has been going on since the beginning of time. War is a natural response to overpopulation. And there is no such thing as "fair" when it comes to war. Just like in nature, the strong kill the weak and take from them whatever they like. The thousands of bodies that are piling up now will be dwarfed in the near future by the hundreds of millions of dead from war, famine and disease. At the end of the day, peak oil is going to kill most of the world's current population....personally I'd rather die in a war than starve to death.


"I do not know how the Third World War will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones." Albert Einstein
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Re: How can the Peak Oil Aware be Anti-War?

Unread postby NEOPO » Wed 08 Nov 2006, 17:20:08

Recessive reptilian genetics.....
At least thats how I explain it cause ya gotta fill them holes in yer head with somethin so Kam is a lizard person and thats cool....
He has to kill I gotta fill! ;-)

Do you love yourself Kam?
One must love and be true to self before attempting to love others.

I run a self love organization when I am not working on my van down by the river..... I can send you some pamplets and maybe you can come to one of our group hug meetings? ;-)
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Re: How can the Peak Oil Aware be Anti-War?

Unread postby Denny » Wed 08 Nov 2006, 18:01:24

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kam30en', ' ')Genghis Khan, the most successful man in history (he has more direct descendants than any other man) didn't sit down and decide not to go to war. He waged war against people who were foreign to him and who he didn't care about. He took whatever they had and made it his. Was it fair....no, was it natural...yes. Was Genghis Khan incompetent....hardly, were his enemies.....absolutely.


Hitler also fashioned himself after Genghis apparently. Killed himself later in a bunker after his war took a few million of his own.

If he'd been successful in battle, would he be regarded today as the world's "most successful man"? I guess by your standard of success he would. Not too many share your standard, and I am thankful for that.
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Re: How can the Peak Oil Aware be Anti-War?

Unread postby mekrob » Wed 08 Nov 2006, 22:02:58

I'm not too familiar with the Mongol Empire. How were the citizens treated? Was there a good amount of freedom, a decent standard of living, human rights, etc? I think we should know how Khan acted as a leader, not as a war-mongerer.
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Re: How can the Peak Oil Aware be Anti-War?

Unread postby mekrob » Wed 08 Nov 2006, 22:10:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')his is the most bogus, wimpy, WRONG thing I think I've ever heard.


Wimpy? You mean like you shouting for war yet not joining the military to fight in the war?
I want to put out the fires of Hell, and burn down the rewards of Paradise. They block the way to God. I do not want to worship from fear of punishment or for the promise of reward, but simply for the love of God. - Rabia
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Re: How can the Peak Oil Aware be Anti-War?

Unread postby SDC » Wed 08 Nov 2006, 23:10:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SDC', '.') I do believe that if it is the only way to keep the American populace alive for the next 1-10 years, war is justified.


Keep the American populace alive, or obliviously toting along in a real estate bubble driving H2s until kingdom come?

There is a difference.

Our creature comforts aren't worth the killing of innocent civilians.


Yes, ALIVE. I think it's been said enough times on this site, but I'll say it again: We fertilize our fields with oil-based fertilizers, and we transport our food with oil, and in an economic crash, we certainly couldn't import. The result? Large-scale dieoff.




NEOPO - I still can't figuire out why you think that David Icke is sane. :roll:
EDIT - Not that I think Kam posesses that quality - sanity, it seems, is pretty damn rare. :doubt:
I might be wrong.
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Re: How can the Peak Oil Aware be Anti-War?

Unread postby seldom_seen » Thu 09 Nov 2006, 02:10:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kam30en', 'A')nd the clueless public is screaming "NO TO WAR" from the driver's seats of their SUVs.

Heh, that would be funny if it wasn't so true.

You have asked some tough questions kam, that mainly go unanswered and undiscussed by politicians, media and the popular culture because they are taboo. The general avoidance of seriousness and reality by our politicians and media is how you would treat a child. A nation of infants. The amount of ad-hominem attacks in this thread is an indication that you have rattled some of the dark recesses of people's brains where they generally avoid focusing their thoughts.

Much of the "anti-war movement", is a juvenile form of rebellion, analagous to a teenager who wants independence and autonomy but knows that they are completely dependent on their parents. I have yet to see a popular movement to abandon the automobile. People want their oil, but they don't want to know about the price to get that oil or the consequences. Bush would have been much smarter to have waged a secret or proxy war against Iraq, thus hiding the reality of our fossil fuel dependence from the american public, because war is the answer if you want to keep driving. Exxon didn't make the biggest profit in the history of corporations because nobody is buying their product.

It is very easy to be "passivist" or "progressive" or take the moral high ground when you have plenty of food, a nice car and a warm house. Most of the American public alive today does not know want. They have never gone a day without food, or gasoline, or had to engage in self defense to protect themselves, their family or land. Thus they have been nurtured in a protective cocoon of super-abundance. So this willingness to consume massive amounts of fossil fuels while protesting the war in iraq should not come as a surprise. There is no connection there. Gas comes from the gas station, food comes from the supermarket. When people are reminded that there is a connection, they will often become defensive about it, and attack the messenger:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'K')am is a lizard person

So we will just keep going round and round in circles until something breaks bad. We'll vote the democrats in until we decide to vote the republicans in until we decide to vote the democrats back in until... We won't be abandoning our super police station in Iraq anytime soon regardless of who is the speaker of the house or what letter they stick next to their name...and the children of America will keep whining and complaining and driving until reality makes an unwelcome entrance from stage left.
But how the world turns. One day, cock of the walk. Next, a feather duster.
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Re: How can the Peak Oil Aware be Anti-War?

Unread postby holmes » Thu 09 Nov 2006, 15:25:26

summed it up nicely there seldom!
"To crush the Cornucopians, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women."
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Re: How can the Peak Oil Aware be Anti-War?

Unread postby mekrob » Thu 09 Nov 2006, 15:43:10

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')ost of the American public alive today does not know want.


Perhaps you misspoke because the America I know only knows of want.

I think most people here do agree with what he, Kam, says sometimes, but not everything and especially his hypocrisy. It's not about what he says, but it definately comes off as though he wants it to happen and he sees absolutely nothing wrong with hundreds of millions of dead innocent women and children.
I want to put out the fires of Hell, and burn down the rewards of Paradise. They block the way to God. I do not want to worship from fear of punishment or for the promise of reward, but simply for the love of God. - Rabia
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