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We can believe

Discussions related to the physiological and psychological effects of peak oil on our members and future generations.
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Re: We can believe

Unread postby clueless » Tue 03 Oct 2006, 19:45:22

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'w')e enjoy existing


How about you ask some of those poor people starving to death in Thailand or other places if they enjoy existing. Nver fear my friend, the poor will one day be comforted and the rich will be tormented.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')The basis of many plays, books and films indeed
.

Hows about you name a few...Better yet how about naming a few that are over 4000 years old.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'w')e will go out of our way to continue to exist


Then how about you quit trying to mandate how we are to exist ?
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Re: We can believe

Unread postby rogerhb » Tue 03 Oct 2006, 20:03:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('clueless', 'H')ow about you ask some of those poor people starving to death in Thailand or other places if they enjoy existing.


Are you suggesting offering them death to see if they are more grateful? If they thought they would be happier dead surely they would have killed themselves?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('clueless', 'H')ows about you name a few...Better yet how about naming a few that are over 4000 years old.


The Epic of Gilgamesh is a good one, there are other creation stories that the authors of Genesis interwove.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('clueless', 'T')hen how about you quit trying to mandate how we are to exist ?


I'm not mandating to anyone, I'm indicating the type of society I would prefer to live in and doing things to that end where I am, and pointing out that the current system will not continue as it is for ever.

For basically very selfish reasons, all I ask is that people don't start a nuclear war, or is that too much to ask of others?
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers." - Henry Louis Mencken
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Re: We can believe

Unread postby RonMN » Tue 03 Oct 2006, 20:12:51

It is such a shame...so few of you recognise God Vs. Religion.

Let's compare it to mathmatics...there is math...numbers..absolutely indisputable.

There is the math teacher...VERY disputable...maybe "stupid" in some of your eyes.

--------------------------------------------

There is God...Absolutely undisputable!!!
There is religion...VERY disputable!

Don't give up on God...because religion has it's faults!
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes.
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Re: We can believe

Unread postby clueless » Tue 03 Oct 2006, 20:20:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'E')pic of Gilgamesh


Ah yes - Right out of MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

Just a poor imitation/perversion of the Original. The Jews were meticulous record keepers, Babylonians were savage/tribal barbarians.

Surely you can do better than that...

Come Rog, you are dissapointing me.
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Re: We can believe

Unread postby clueless » Tue 03 Oct 2006, 20:21:58

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')'m not mandating to anyone, I'm indicating the type of society I would prefer to live in and doing things to that end where I am, and pointing out that the current system will not continue as it is for ever.

For basically very selfish reasons, all I ask is that people don't start a nuclear war, or is that too much to ask of others?


Sorry Dude - You just may be out of luck...

2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
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Re: We can believe

Unread postby rogerhb » Tue 03 Oct 2006, 20:31:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('clueless', 'J')ust a poor imitation/perversion of the Original.


Read the first couple of paragraphs of Genesis. It is two contradictory stories woven together. It is not an original.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('clueless', 'T')he Jews were meticulous record keepers, Babylonians were savage/tribal barbarians.


The bilical Jews were just another bunch of tribes with their own war god who they called Jaweh. They were neither better nor worse than their contemporaries. They raped and pillaged, they were victims of rape and pillage, they waged war, they had war waged on them.
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers." - Henry Louis Mencken
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Re: We can believe

Unread postby rogerhb » Tue 03 Oct 2006, 20:35:27

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('clueless', 'S')orry Dude - You just may be out of luck...

2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.


But of course that has to be a nuclear war doesn't it.

Couldn't you be satisfied with the the Earth being swallowed by the expansion of the sun during it's death?
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers." - Henry Louis Mencken
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Re: We can believe

Unread postby clueless » Tue 03 Oct 2006, 20:37:35

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he bilical Jews were just another bunch of tribes with their own war god who they called Jaweh. They were neither better nor worse than their contemporaries. They raped and pillaged, they were victims of rape and pillage, they waged war, they had war waged on them.


Did I say they didn't do any of these things ? Look at the middle eastern nations today ? Are you really going to say there is no difference between Israel and say Iraq or Iran ? Coming from a guy that claims to be able to discern and define a "recognizably humane society". If you say that then your hypocrisy will be plainly evident....

And besides I only said the Jews were meticulous record keepers. And trying to discredit the bible doesn't work for me...It's like saying the US Constitution is "Two Thoughts Woven togehter" it makes no difference...WHat is written is what is written. You opinions are simply just that...And you know what they say about opinions.

And I have noticed your posts are largely "Your opinion" intermingled with a convoluted fact or two...Like the Gilgamesh joke.
Last edited by clueless on Tue 03 Oct 2006, 20:43:06, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: We can believe

Unread postby clueless » Tue 03 Oct 2006, 20:40:20

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')ut of course that has to be a nuclear war doesn't it.

Couldn't you be satisfied with the the Earth being swallowed by the expansion of the sun during it's death?


I didn't say it was a Nuclear war did I ? I said you may be out of luck. I personally believe this is the entropic principle in it's final stage. All matter simply disolves into the sub-atomic (eternal) realm.

Another tactic I notice you use...Strawman tactics.
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Re: We can believe

Unread postby rogerhb » Tue 03 Oct 2006, 20:44:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('clueless', 'I') didn't say it was a Nuclear war did I ? I said you may be out of luck. I personally believe this is the entropic principle in it's final stage. All matter simply disolves into the sub-atomic (eternal) realm.


The quote you gave described things being burnt up with great heat. The final cooling of the universe will be that, cooling.
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers." - Henry Louis Mencken
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Re: We can believe

Unread postby rwwff » Tue 03 Oct 2006, 20:45:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', 'C')ouldn't you be satisfied with the the Earth being swallowed by the expansion of the sun during it's death?


No need to wait for the sun or a twitchy button finger:

A moon sized body sitting out past pluto near its apoapsis in a comet shaped orbit would do the deed. Melting the earth could come much sooner than anyone might guess.
abundance fleeting
men falling like hungry leaves
decay masters all
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Re: We can believe

Unread postby clueless » Tue 03 Oct 2006, 20:55:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he quote you gave described things being burnt up with great heat. The final cooling of the universe will be that, cooling.


Atoms are held together by some "unseen" force, one day they will simply cease to be "Held together" when this unseen force that holds them together, ceases to do so then this is what you will have. The equivelant of a universal atomic bomb., where all atoms will dissolve into the sub-atomic realm.
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Re: We can believe

Unread postby clueless » Tue 03 Oct 2006, 20:57:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he quote you gave described things being burnt up with great heat. The final cooling of the universe will be that, cooling.


Where is your proof of this "cooling" ?
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Re: We can believe

Unread postby rogerhb » Tue 03 Oct 2006, 21:04:25

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('clueless', 'W')here is your proof of this "cooling" ?


Entropy is about loss of energy. When things lose energy they cool down. With the continually expanding model of the universe, everything just keeps getting further away from everything else and colder, but never actually reaches absolute zero.
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Re: We can believe

Unread postby rogerhb » Tue 03 Oct 2006, 21:06:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('clueless', 'A')re you really going to say there is no difference between Israel and say Iraq or Iran?


Not really, it's just religious tribalism.

Both Iraq and Iran had their recent periods of secularism under strong men, but looks like those times have passed.
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Re: We can believe

Unread postby clueless » Tue 03 Oct 2006, 21:07:06

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'E')ntropy is about loss of energy. When things lose energy they cool down. With the continually expanding model of the universe, everything just keeps getting further away from everything else and colder, but never actually reaches absolute zero.


An interesting theory.
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Re: We can believe

Unread postby rogerhb » Tue 03 Oct 2006, 21:08:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('clueless', 'A')n interesting theory.


It's cool.
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Re: We can believe

Unread postby clueless » Tue 03 Oct 2006, 21:09:10

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')ot really, it's just religious tribalism.


Wrong again Roghb...Israel is 97 % secular, there is nothing religous about it.

And so is Iraq & Iran...They want western luxuries.
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Re: We can believe

Unread postby rogerhb » Tue 03 Oct 2006, 21:13:58

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('clueless', 'I')t's like saying the US Constitution is "Two Thoughts Woven togehter" it makes no difference...WHat is written is what is written.


The difference between the US Constitution and the Bible was that the US Constitution was written over a short period of time as a contained statement, where as the Bible is a written record of the merging of a number of different oral traditions with little effort made to remove contradictions.
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Re: We can believe

Unread postby rogerhb » Tue 03 Oct 2006, 21:16:21

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('clueless', 'I')srael is 97 % secular


97% of what exactly?

Are you saying that Israel only contains 3% jews, the rest are athiests?
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