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We can believe

Discussions related to the physiological and psychological effects of peak oil on our members and future generations.

Re: We can believe

Unread postby Ibon » Thu 28 Sep 2006, 15:39:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Niagara', '
')our forefathers did not swing from trees and fling poo at each other


But their descendents sure did. Just take a look at the state of our global ecosystems.
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Re: We can believe

Unread postby dinopello » Thu 28 Sep 2006, 15:45:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', ' ')He does have a sense of humour.


Like that "be fruitful and multiply" line. Ha ha very funny. Jokes on us. Its like those ambiguous phrases

God: "You can NEVER have too many babies".

Hmm...

No, but I agree. God must have a sense of humor. If he were all serious all the time who would want to be around him ?
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Re: We can believe

Unread postby clueless » Thu 28 Sep 2006, 16:16:24

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')esides this is a Peak Oil website, not a religion forum.


This in a "Psychological" forum OF a "peak oil" websight

And:

One should not be ashamed of what they believe.

Mat 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

And :

Yes God does have a sense of humor - Especially those who reject his truth.

Pro 1:24-33 Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded; (25) But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof: (26) I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh; (27) When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you. (28. Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me: (29) For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD: (30) They would none of my counsel: they despised all my reproof. (31) Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices. (32) For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, and the prosperity of fools shall destroy them. (33) But whoso hearkeneth unto me shall dwell safely, and shall be quiet from fear of evil.
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Re: We can believe

Unread postby Ibon » Thu 28 Sep 2006, 16:17:57

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Niagara', 'I') don't want to continue debating on doctrines. It's a waste of time. Besides this is a Peak Oil website, not a religion forum.


We're in the Psychology Forum here so there is more latitude in a deeper exchange and sharing of thoughts around belief. This can surely include some scriptural analysis as long as it isn't limited to this.

On a serious note our culture will not transform toward a more sustainable paradigm if the super structures in our culture don't evolve. I would include our religious, economic and political systems as the three biggest super structures that require evolution if we will ever acheive a sustainable culture and deal with some very profound ethical questions on how we manage 6.5 billion humans going into resource decline.

We will not solve this problem with technology alone. So I find these discussions actually at least as important as technical analysis.

Western culture is mainly christian and many believers and even non believers still have a moral and ethical value system based on the legacy of christian doctrine. This doctrine is not absolute and is not perfect and if it doesn't evolve to the realities of today that have some profound differences to human culture 2000 years ago than we are surely doomed.

We don't have to throw the baby out with the bath water but if you don't change the water occasionally in the fish tank then the fish start dying and stinking and frankly christianity today is missing some key doctrine and is unable to deal with providing spiritual solutions to our over population and resource depletion.
Anything that doesn't evolve goes extinct. Including any religion, none of which are infallible.
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Re: We can believe

Unread postby Ibon » Thu 28 Sep 2006, 16:20:48

Hey clueless, check that out, we both posted within one minute very similar sentiments about allowing for open discussion. See, there is some cross pollination possible here. Them angiosperms surely made a profound change 220 million years ago when they first evolved in the late carboniferous :)
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Re: We can believe

Unread postby clueless » Thu 28 Sep 2006, 16:24:04

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'O')n a serious note our culture will not transform toward a more sustainable paradigm if the super structures in our culture don't evolve. I would include our religious, economic and political systems as the three biggest super structures that require evolution if we will ever acheive a sustainable culture and deal with some very profound ethical questions on how we manage 6.5 billion humans going into resource decline.


This is so completely ignorant and unture...The very reason we are going to see 3/4 of the population die-off is because we are not living and inhabiting the planet the way God instructed us to. God did not invent industrial civ. Man did, therefore it is unsustainable, and will collapse (or be judged) one day.

God told us to live off the land and to not exploit it (Gen 3:17-18.. He told us to not cram ourselves together in unsustainable living arrangements(Isaiah 5:8.

There are many others I can show you, but since the bible is "SO" old and unreliable you refuse to acknowledge it.
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Re: We can believe

Unread postby Ibon » Thu 28 Sep 2006, 18:03:24

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('clueless', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'O')n a serious note our culture will not transform toward a more sustainable paradigm if the super structures in our culture don't evolve. I would include our religious, economic and political systems as the three biggest super structures that require evolution if we will ever acheive a sustainable culture and deal with some very profound ethical questions on how we manage 6.5 billion humans going into resource decline.


This is so completely ignorant and unture...The very reason we are going to see 3/4 of the population die-off is because we are not living and inhabiting the planet the way God instructed us to. God did not invent industrial civ. Man did, therefore it is unsustainable, and will collapse (or be judged) one day.

God told us to live off the land and to not exploit it (Gen 3:17-18.. He told us to not cram ourselves together in unsustainable living arrangements(Isaiah 5:8.

There are many others I can show you, but since the bible is "SO" old and unreliable you refuse to acknowledge it.


For about 2 million years before christianity and other religions man did live sustainably (except perhaps the extinction of pleistocene mammals and a few other isolated examples). The most capitalistic free market society on the planet today happens to be the same society with the largest percentage of people believing in the christian god.

Christianity is not the cause but it is certainly complicit. Your religion clueless is against birth control in impoverished 3rd world countries. That is nothing short of criminal. As I said before, morally bankrupt. But we are going in circles here and have reached an impasse. Let's sit back shall we and just see how things EVOLVE and perhaps we'll chat again.

I have enjoyed debating you and it has deepened my understanding. Thank you.
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Re: We can believe

Unread postby clueless » Thu 28 Sep 2006, 18:34:58

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'F')or about 2 million years before christianity and other religions man did live sustainably (except perhaps the extinction of pleistocene mammals and a few other isolated examples).


Uh Huh...According to whom ?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he most capitalistic free market society on the planet today happens to be the same society with the largest percentage of people believing in the christian god.


Well that could be very debatable - If a person (or even a collective whole) is known by their fruits, one could say the United States most resembles the Great Whore who is judged in Revelation 18. This country may have large numbers who profess Christianity, but the observed actions show quite differently.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')hristianity is not the cause but it is certainly complicit. Your religion clueless is against birth control in impoverished 3rd world countries. That is nothing short of criminal.


People are created to, and have the right to reproduce - Sorry if you disagree or don't like it, but we are not born with condoms on. Catholics for some reason oppose birth control, but Catholic beliefs are not Orthodox Christian beliefs.
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Re: We can believe

Unread postby rogerhb » Thu 28 Sep 2006, 20:31:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('clueless', 'G')od did not invent industrial civ. Man did, therefore it is unsustainable


You never did logic, right?
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers." - Henry Louis Mencken
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Re: We can believe

Unread postby rogerhb » Thu 28 Sep 2006, 20:37:04

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('clueless', 'O')ne should not be ashamed of what they believe.


So a psychopath or sociopath should not be ashamed?
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers." - Henry Louis Mencken
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Re: We can believe

Unread postby clueless » Thu 28 Sep 2006, 21:04:53

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'Y')ou never did logic, right?


If you are going to ad-hominem then at least tell me what you are referring to..

Industrial Civ. was not created by God or according to his plan - So it will be judged one day.

ROGHB were you picked on as a boy ??? In school perhaps ?
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Re: We can believe

Unread postby jbrown » Thu 28 Sep 2006, 22:07:30

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('clueless', ' ')but we are not born with condoms on.

We weren't born with clothes on either however I suspect you wear them. Yikes, your name tells it all.
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Re: We can believe

Unread postby rwwff » Thu 28 Sep 2006, 22:22:25

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', 'S')o a psychopath or sociopath should not be ashamed?


No concept of shame to begin with. Only hunger.

:twisted:
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Re: We can believe

Unread postby clueless » Fri 29 Sep 2006, 11:50:54

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')e weren't born with clothes on either however I suspect you wear them. Yikes, your name tells it all.


OK evolutionist wackos - How on earth did the human race survive and flourish for billions of years (according to your timetable) without condoms ??? So now condoms and broth control are going to be the savior of the "Mother Gaia" planet earth ?

Give me a break, and if people want to have kids that is their right. And the real funny thing is there is not 1, one, Uno thing you guys are going to do about it.

God has the last say, he created it, he has a plan, and there aint nothin Peakoilers out to save the planet by stopping pregnancy and killing children, can do about it.

:lol:
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Re: We can believe

Unread postby Ibon » Fri 29 Sep 2006, 12:00:28

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('clueless', 'G')od has the last say, he created it, he has a plan, and there aint nothin Peakoilers out to save the planet by stopping pregnancy and killing children, can do about it.

:lol:


I'm so happy he has a plan. It makes me feel like I have a big Daddy in the sky!
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Re: We can believe

Unread postby clueless » Fri 29 Sep 2006, 12:04:25

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')'m so happy he has a plan. It makes me feel like I have a big Daddy in the sky!


There are actually two types of children:

Children of God (Daddy, Father, Provider, Savior, Truth)

Or

Children of the Devil (Destroyer, Liar, Deciever etc.)

Which one are you ?
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Re: We can believe

Unread postby Ibon » Fri 29 Sep 2006, 12:06:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('clueless', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')'m so happy he has a plan. It makes me feel like I have a big Daddy in the sky!


There are actually two types of children:

Children of God (Daddy, Father, Provider, Savior, Truth)

Or

Children of the Devil (Destroyer, Liar, Deciever etc.)

Which one are you ?


I've got a little of both!
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Re: We can believe

Unread postby clueless » Fri 29 Sep 2006, 12:08:36

I hear you !

The spirit wars against the flesh...

Take care my friend.
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Re: We can believe

Unread postby dinopello » Fri 29 Sep 2006, 12:14:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('clueless', 'G')od has the last say, he created it, he has a plan, and there aint nothin Peakoilers out to save the planet by stopping pregnancy and killing children, can do about it.

:lol:


Does god's plan involve four horseman? War, Famine, Pestilence, Death?

God is a doomer ?
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Re: We can believe

Unread postby clueless » Fri 29 Sep 2006, 13:03:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'D')oes god's plan involve four horseman? War, Famine, Pestilence, Death?

God is a doomer ?


You said it my friend.

I always like to say to my Christian Peers who struggle with loving the world and the things in it...

"God has a wonderful plan for the world, he is going to destroy it and make a new one".
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