[Waterthrush]

It appears while many Peak Oilers are plotting their escape to rural America, the "infill" back to the city may be the larger movement. Today's "Week in Review" section of the New York Times has a short article on the growing fight between developers who want to build high-rises in previously built-up, but lower-density, urban areas, with the poor bearing the brunt of the redevelopment. In part, the reason is because of the cost of commuting. Parking, the big bugaboo, as usual is the focus of complaints.

I am so biased in favor of open space that I believe these problems can be overcome (at least until the post-peak problems accelerate). There are many models for mixing subsidized housing with market-value housing (which was the original idea behind "urban development." And the advantages of offering mass transit and pedestrian travel seem to me very important.

But, I freely acknowledge I wouldn't want to live in one Not a city girl.

[green_achers]

On the one hand, a good argument can be made that if there is going to be a future for civilization and culture, it is going to have to be an urban one. Maybe it's possible to have the Manor be the center of economic and cultural life, as in the Middle Ages, or some model of the Jeffersonian plantation, but it seems that humans have always formed themselves into cities, and that's where advancements are made. Cities are also much more effieient in terms of transportation and sharing of resources. There isn't one person I know on the "back to the land" side who doesn't drive a truck.

OTOH, the plantation-sized unit is very stable and self-sufficient for hard times. I guess it depends on how optimistic one is.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('green_achers', ' ')it seems that humans have always formed themselves into cities

[emersonbiggins]

Rescinding urban segregated zoning laws would render arguments about infill rather moot. Rezone neighborhoods from R-1 to MU/HU and let the market adjust accordingly, no "eminent domain" or "redevelopment" discussions needed. Neighborhoods containing nothing but single-family dwellings are the real aberration of civilization, a situation rendered workable only with cheap and copious amounts of energy.

[Zardoz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('green_achers', ' ')it seems that humans have always formed themselves into cities

[Dreamtwister]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', 'H')ow will you handle the constant threat of raids by roving bands?

[jupiters_release]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dreamtwister', '.') If he were to cut down the address marker at the end of the driveway and let the entrance overgrow, the roving masses would NEVER find this place.

[Dreamtwister]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jupiters_release', 'S')o you survive with one other person of the opposite sex, you have children together, ok all good for the next generation(if you don't get buried in a glacier of course) but then what? Isolation isn't sustainable and is it really worth living?

[Zardoz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dreamtwister', '.')..the roving masses would NEVER find this place...

[rwwff]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'i')solation

[Doly]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dreamtwister', 'A')s far as I'm concerned, the last truly important invention was the windmill. Everything else is pointless comfort.

[seldom_seen]

This trend is entirely expected and will once again revert to a flee from the city when basic services become sporadic or unavailable.

[gg3]

EmersonBiggins is right on target: no more R-1, rezone everything to mixed use.

Better yet: Another proposal that has been gaining favor is called "impact-based zoning." It does away with IS and replaces it with DOES.

It's irrelevant what a property or building is. State of the verb TO BE is none of the government's business, and none of anyone else's damn business either.

What's relevant is what a property or building does. State of the verb TO DO is anyone's business who is affected by the doing.

As long as I don't cause a stinkypoo with my neighbors in such a manner that prevents them using their property as they choose, no one can stop me using my property as I choose. Cities can enact "impact" ordinances specifying unacceptable impacts: noise, cars on the street, bright lights, bad smells, nasty chemicals escaping a property, types and quantities of waste produced, etc.

So then, if I want to open up an industrial machine shop in my "single-family" house, fine, I go right ahead, just as long as the neighbors can't see it, hear it, or smell it, and as long as the people working there get in via carpool so there is only one more vehicle (a minivan or whatever the carpool uses) parked in my driveway but not on the street.

---

Re. security issues in rural areas:

First principle is, be on friendly terms with local law enforcement, and do your part in the community e.g. neighborhood watch etc. Do not get in trouble even for "small things" such as driving over the posted speed limit.

Second, good intel prevents risks turning into threats.

Third, participation in the local economy is your most accessible source of intel.

Fourth, good trade relations also provide bonds between neighbors. A healthy free market gives everyone a stake in preserving peace and order.

Fifth, you can't go it alone. The larger community (neighbors and nearby towns) have to be on-side, all in agreement on generalities and specifics. If you have the respect of the community-at-large, then they will listen when times get nasty and you suggest organizing a common defense. Gaining respect and positive reputation takes time and effort. You need to start from the day you move in, and start by doing things that are relatively inconspicuous, purely uncontroversial, and demonstrate good character.

[MrBill]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('green_achers', ' ')it seems that humans have always formed themselves into cities

[Dreamtwister]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dreamtwister', '.')..the roving masses would NEVER find this place...

[Zardoz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seldom_seen', 'T')his trend is entirely expected and will once again revert to a flee from the city when basic services become sporadic or unavailable.

[marko]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', 'A')ll remaining resources will be marshalled, appropriated, and commandeered by the authoritarian/totalitarian government to keep the cities functioning at some sort of basic subsistence level, simply because that's where all the people are.

Basic services (water, sewage, power, food distribution, police) will be maintained at some sort of level right up until the full-on Mad Max scenario kicks in, and then nothing will matter anyway. Then we all die, so who cares?

[MountainHiker]

The authoritarian government requires a lot of energy and resources to maintain. I believe that will make it a phase that we will pass through. There are a alot of factors that will determine how long it will last, one of which includes how much monkeywrenching it can withstand from the few remaining patriots.

My guess is the influence of the government's minions will be felt much less in sparsely populated areas with little stratgic advantage. Why would they waste the resources? Of course, eking out a living in these places is difficult too.

One thing I have read from the hardcore survivalists is to live at least one tank of gas from a major population center. That doesn't leave much to consider these days!

My guess is towns with populations from 5,000 - 30,000 should fare ok as long as they aren't propped up with heavy irrigation, distant water sources, a poor hinterland, etc...

One thing I often notice is the Western idea of "settling in" to where you're going to live. Maybe a more nomadic lifestyle will once again become the norm. Naturally that won't work at current population levels and with the way things are done in our private property culture, but that may change at one point.

[TommyJefferson]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', 'F')lee to where? What will people do to keep from starving quickly when they flee?

[marko]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shannymara', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TommyJefferson', 'T')hey won't be fleeing to anywhere. How would they with no gasoline? They will starve in place.