[Miki]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seldom_seen', 'T')ime to stop hosting Hezbollah in your country it looks like.

[seldom_seen]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', 'L')et's put it this way dude: I'd rather have Lebanese terrorists protecting my country than to have Israeli/American terrorists invading my land and slaughtering my people. Got it?

[Jack]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Magus', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '"')The report also recommended that the FBI and CIA be better able to hire criminals and suspected criminals. Responding to the charge that the CIA shouldn’t hire thugs or other "unsavoury sources", Bremer said "We feel that ‘unsavoury sources’ and ‘thugs’ does these folks a disservice. We prefer to think of these job applicants as simply good kids gone bad. We feel that the CIA can play a rehabilative role in American society."

[Miki]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')f one is going to cleanse the sewers, one must plunge into the heart of the filth. Choir boys aren't useful. Those willing to get their hands dirty, right up to the elbows, can be very helpful. They just need to be kept within certain bounds.

By the way - criminals and suspected criminals already make important contributions to law enforcement. So this isn't really a change - rather, it will mark a change in how they're paid. Plus they'll get health insurance.

[Miki]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seldom_seen', '
')
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'G')ot it. I respect your willingness to state what side you're on. Most people will keep sneaking through the grass like a snake without ever stating where they stand.

[nazman]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')f one is going to cleanse the sewers, one must plunge into the heart of the filth. Choir boys aren't useful. Those willing to get their hands dirty, right up to the elbows, can be very helpful. They just need to be kept within certain bounds.

By the way - criminals and suspected criminals already make important contributions to law enforcement. So this isn't really a change - rather, it will mark a change in how they're paid. Plus they'll get health insurance.

[Novus]

I have long stopped referring to this conflict between the West and Middle East as the War on Terror. I simply call the it 'The Terror War' or the 'War of Terror.' I hear other people around me call it WWIII or a Crusade.

[Zardoz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', 'J')ack, every time I read a new post from you, I worry more about your real identity.

[Jack]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', '
')Are you sure you're not mixing the strawberry incense with something a bit "stronger"?

[Miki]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', '
')Are you sure you're not mixing the strawberry incense with something a bit "stronger"?

[Bas]

Noam Chomsky

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noam_Chomsky

I knew that name rang a bell somewhere....and they don't come much more credible than that, well done Miki!

[Miki]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('azreal60', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') think what more they want to know is a more personal look at things. If your in Lebanon, I'm genuinely curious, what parts can you personally confirm as hit? I ask because my brother only just got back from there, and we have pictures of him standing next to things that I just saw on CNN as completely destroyed. Kinda depressing, the buildings in the pictures where really beautiful.

[Fergus]

Something has been bothering me about all the issues coming together there. We (think we) know that we aree headed for dire straits here soon. The oil companies and country governments I would assume also are acutely aware of coming issues.

But yet you read oil is everywhere, easy to get and nothing to worry about. When your dealing with intelligent pple that does not wash. Sheeple are fine. But wether we know it or not, do the companies have a moral obligation to warn us and let us prepare NOW. Does our Government have the moral obligation of preparing us for the impending disater.

By telling us nothing is wrong and its just the storm that pushed the price up of gas and bread and milk and....... they are setting us up to fall (are they not).

I think this is the thing that really throws me for a loop. While we understand something negitive is happening, the pple that do know and should know are telling us everythings fine. That blows my mind.

I understand the pursuit of a dollar takes prescident over informing the public your going out of business. I understand the political implications of spilling the beans. I understand greed only too well.

But is there not a point that moral obligation to your fellow man takes top priority? Does there not come a time when you are duty bound to tell the public they are screwed and their is a really nothing they can do about it.

I understand many pple would not even want to know. Do we have an obligation to tell pple that dont want to know? Wether they are willing to find out avbout it or not, they are involved and will suffer right along side the prepared pple. Does the fact they dont want to know obsolve companies/governments from telling us.

I dont have answers, only more questions. I know telling pple the world is over is a bad thing as you induce panic and more greed and even more panic, but we have to know at some point. When you have cancer the doctor does not tell you that 'you are fine, might wanna get the partying out of your system, but dont worry bout anything'. Is this any different from a human body having cancer. Does not the Human Being have cancers (PO, GW, OS). DO we not get to know we are terminal till were bed redden and can no longer enjoy anything?

Is there a moral obligation on anyone/anywhere that is in the know officially. Do we as a public dserve to know now, while we can do somethings still to prevent a total collapse of everything.

Your thoughts on this would be welcome as I have wrangled round with this issue for quite sometime and have come to the conclussion that we do have the right to know. But I am not sure I want the public to know just yet, as I am not finished with my prep. I do feel quilty preparing behind the back of society, and also for not wanting them to know till I am finished. These thoughts have placed me in a moral delema as well. I get racked wioth guilt when I consider that I know a terrible secret that you dont even want to know. So even deciding we have the right, I dont know if its still right to tell us or not. Your thoughts on this cunundrum.

[zberry]

Great subject. I personally feel the moral implications are very strong to change our behavior. Is it moral to continue using resources at our present rate when we know it will result in shortages for children, grandchildren, and when we know consuming those resources will place their food, air, and water in jeapordy? I say no.
Ironically, some of the new "mega" churches with huge video screens, massive air-conditioned structures, are just huge energy hogs.
Mega Church in Stadium

[MonteQuest]

Fergus, you write this as if it is something new.

We have known since the times of Malthus and Darwin that:

"The cumulative biotic potential of any given species always exceeds the carrying capacity of it's environment."

Yet, we never made moves to limit our population.

Since the first grasp of exponential growth mathematics, we have known our future with regard to population and resources.

Yet, we have made no moves to conserve.

Since the first grasp of entropy and the laws of thermodynamics we have known that there are limits and no free lunches.

Yet, we build and consume like there is no tomorrow.

We have know for years that fossil fuels are finite and becoming harder to find and obtain ( we peaked in oil production in 1970).

Yet, we have made no significant moves to use our fossil fuel platform to build renewable/sustainable energy sources.

We have just shrugged...

We have known we were headed for dire straits for over 100 years.

We are very short-sighted as humans.

[kjmclark]

You know, the real problem is that the "ultimate" moral authorities, in western countries at least, are the churches. Unfortunately, for the most part, what was moral 1000-2000 years ago, when the various holy books were written, is the problem today. "Go forth and multiply", "dominion over the earth", and "birth control is a sin" are all examples of the problem.

There was certainly a time when these made a great deal of sense. Dominion over the earth gave us moral absolution in anything humans would do that didn't harm other humans. That was very valuable for expanding humanity, since it means you aren't doing anything wrong unless it harms other people. This gave us lots of resources to fulfill the old testament command to "Increase and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it, and rule over the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the air, and all living creatures that move upon the earth." When humans were a small population and the world was full of dangers, the best security was usually in having more humans.

Do we need a new bible, for a small world? The old testament was for the immense world that we have now subdued and filled with humans. Think about how immense a task it is to ask humanity to throw away the old bibles and write new ones to deal with these problems. Does "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" even apply to people not yet born?

Or to turn the whole thing around, if we master fusion in the next 5 years, we have the energy available to solve every problem. If the ITER in France manages sustained fusion, we might have time to build others like it, and use excess energy from the plants to remove carbon from the air. Then we may be able to continue going forth and multiplying for another thousand years, without it being necessarily immoral after all.

[mjdlight]

Excellent post, Kjmclark. I never thought of it that way, but that makes perfect sense. Everything must evolve, even religions.

However, given that religions deal in dogma, moral absolutes, and rigid heiarchies, I'm not holding my breath.

[kjmclark]

Of course, 5 years isn't likely to happen, since ITER isn't supposed to be operational until 2016 at the earliest.

[Fergus]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', 'F')ergus, you write this as if it is something new.

We have known since the times of Malthus and Darwin that:

"The cumulative biotic potential of any given species always exceeds the carrying capacity of it's environment."

Yet, we never made moves to limit our population.

Since the first grasp of exponential growth mathematics, we have known our future with regard to population and resources.

Yet, we have made no moves to conserve.

Since the first grasp of entropy and the laws of thermodynamics we have known that there are limits and no free lunches.

Yet, we build and consume like there is no tomorrow.

We have know for years that fossil fuels are finite and becoming harder to find and obtain ( we peaked in oil production in 1970).

Yet, we have made no significant moves to use our fossil fuel platform to build renewable/sustainable energy sources.

We have just shrugged...

We have known we were headed for dire straits for over 100 years.

We are very short-sighted as humans.

[ohanian]

If you define STUPIDITY as acting against your own self interest, then




HUMANITY IS STUPID!