[Doly]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gg3', '
')CIA needs to remain a civilian agency, amenable to civilian control.

[Peak_Plus]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Doly', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gg3', '
')CIA needs to remain a civilian agency, amenable to civilian control.

[Peak_Plus]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gg3', 'W')hat's important about the Hayden nomination is: ...

[seahorse2]

Personally,

I think Bush' nominne to succed CIA Director Goss is "telling" about where this administration is heading - which is closer to the neocon position, not away from it. The nominee, General Hayden, clearly tows the neocon line that Article 2 gives the President whatever power he deems necessary in this undeclared "war on terror." (Hayden was one of the architects of the domestic spying etc).

Hayden's nomination shows the direction this administration is going. It is similar to Powell being pushed out of the administration. We all knew when Powell was pushed out the "liberal" viewpoint in the admin had lost out to the neocon viewpoint. The same is true now with the Hayden nomination. Despite the low poll ratings, high energy prices, and the Iraq debacle, the neocon position in this administration is being hardened.

I think the neocon position in the administration is being hardened at an increasing scale bc of the upcoming national elections, where many think the democrats have a chance to take control of Congress. A democratically controlled Congress could bring down the administration through hearings which have been threatened by Democrats if they are elected, some have even suggested impeachment hearings. So, the White House is worried. I think this is a very dangerous time period in American politics. This Hayden nomination is only more cause for concern.

[TheTurtle]

Not only is the CIA chief being replaced with an active duty military officer, but so too is the civilian director of NGA being replaced by an active duty military officer. The NGA director made the mistake of criticizing Rumsfeld. He is being replaced next month.

After that takes place, assuiming Hayden is confirmed, then the top three US intelligence agencies (CIA, NSA and NGA) will all be headed by active duty military officers who are less likely to say, "No" to Rumsfeld.

If you are a fan of Rumsfeld, this is no cause for alarm. If you consider him a danger to world peace, this is a troubling turn of events.

[Peak_Plus]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lutherquick', 'G')ee, what's all the fuss?
Maybe that's why I feel Bush is the wrong man to deal with peak oil.

[Peak_Plus]

[edited out]

[seahorse2]

Turtle,

That's interesting about the NGA. I wasn't aware of that. Its interesting bc it seems there is a "defense department" coupe going on. Keep in mind that there is only one Federal agency exempt from jurisdiction under the new Intelligence Czar, and that is the Defense Department. After the 9-11 Commission made its recommendation to overhaul all US intelligence gathering agencies under one head, all were brought under except the Defense Department.

Slate.com

The above article argues that, bc the new intelligence czar has no authority over the defense department, he is a toothless figurehead.

Here's the wikipedia link to the intelligence czar. Wikipedia

Here's the link to the Director of National Intelligence webpage. DNI webpage

[TheTurtle]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seahorse2', 'T')hat's interesting about the NGA. I wasn't aware of that.

[seahorse2]

I'm surprised that General Hayden isn't retiring in order to become head of the CIA. Yahoo News

I assumed he would retire if appointed to the CIA; however, that assumption is apparently incorrect. Therefore, if Hayden is approved, it will be a military takeover of the CIA, since a general still responsible to Rumsfeld will be leading the CIA. There's no other way to read that, clearly, if he hasn't resigned, he still answers to the Secretary of Defense. He can't be independent and not retire.

[gg3]

PeakPlus: Deciphering (cryptanalysis) is handled by NSA, and the output of that is fed to the same analysts who process the product of cleartext intercepts. Their product in turn goes to CIA. CIA does not do cryptanalysis in-house, it requires specialized computer resources and personnel and there is no point duplicating those (expensive) resources.

Re. NGA: That's **really** interesting. Hoo-boy that is interesting for all kinds of reasons I can go into later. But meanwhile go here:

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20060508/D8HFOD500.html

"ROCHESTER, N.Y. (AP) - Low-lying Cessna 172s fly in grid patterns over major cities, capturing eagle-eye images of every square foot from just about every direction.

Instead of just the straight-down views that distant satellites gather, the planes photograph America's varied landscape at a 40-degree angle from a few thousand feet in the air. The images are detailed enough to pick out fire hydrants in Chicago, lilac trees in Rochester and the levees of New Orleans before and after Hurricane Katrina.

The small company behind all this, Pictometry International Corp., has found plenty of business, notably in the realm of public safety...."

The article goes on to say that Pictometry wants to make its stuff available to the public for a price, and that they will pixelate the images at a level that makes it impossible to pick out faces and license plates. This clearly implies that when the photographs are taken, and presumably made available to government clients, you *can* pick out license plates and faces.

TheTurtle & Seahorse: VERY good point there about consolidation of control over the major intel agencies, and implications re. a "coup" (correct spelling). Strictly speaking that is not a coup, it is consolidation of executive control over agencies that the military would need IF the military were to try to revolt against the regime. For example if it became clear that the regime was acting as a domestic enemy of the Constitution, which is covered by the oath taken by officers ("to uphold and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign AND domestic").

Now I wonder about this: If I wrote a poem, for example, and painted it on my roof in white paint, and put a copyright symbol after it, could I sue Pictometry for copyright violation for photographing & distributing the pictures...? Hmm!, interesting angle. Though of course that's like painting a target on one's backside: "Dissenter lives here!"

I'll tell you this. I have not felt scared by the goings-on in our intel agencies, including the illegal domestic collection program, until the last couple of days.

Here's one more piece if you're still not scared:

http://wotisitgood4.blogspot.com/2006/0 ... ssert.html

Pay close attention to the item about the capabilities of that private-sector entity with the interesting database & lookup capabilities.

It would appear we are turning a corner and entering a new era...

[Jellric]

If confirmed, he can join the rest of the gang!

[seahorse]

GG3,

Unfortunately, our very complex hi tech computer driven economy and system is allowing the 4th Amendment to die a slow painful death: reason being - the gov't can use private companies to "spy" on people and gather information that the gov't would otherwise be forbidden to gather under the 4th Amendment. The 4th Amendment only forbids the gov't from tapping wires and gathering info, not private citizens. So, the gov't, just like other business, is now gathering information through companies that specialize in data mining, photography, etc., bc its not prohibited by the Constitution, or arguably not prohibited.

This intelligence gathering for the war on terror will be the end of the 4th Amendment, if its not dead already. Its my belief that the ongoing "domestic spying" is being done by the Department of Homeland Security's "ICE", which is a specialized police force, which has been given the mission of domestic survellance as specified on their webpage. Of course, there's probably any number of agencies spying on us, but this seems to be the culmination of recent intelligence gathering.

[gg3]

I'll tell you this: I've been warning about private sector SIGINT since some time last year, but it never occurred to me that private sector IMINT would become such a big factor. Google Earth is one thing, that being done from satellites and having inherently limited resolution. But this latest, is being done from low-flying planes, and suffers from no such limitation.

From this it also follows that private sector HUMINT will become a big deal soon: private spy agencies that infiltrate & collect, same as an undercover operation, and then sell the goodies to government agencies & private buyers. By this I do not mean conventional private investigator stuff, but systematically organized collection operations of the type that an intel agency would undertake against a hostile foreign regime.

We need a clean sweep in Congress and the White House and then a complete reversal of all of this BS, including laws to ban outright any private sector entity performing systematic intel collection and/or processing on US citizens. We need a comprehensive privacy amendment to the constitution.

And if none of the above, we need to see some serious lawsuits against this sort of crap. Relentless lawsuits against every single private sector spy agency, in every single local jurisdiction, working their way up through the courts and tying up those companies for so many years in so much legal red-tape that they squeak for mercy while their stock values go down the toilet and investors run shrieking in the other direction.

This November, vote like your life depends on it!

[Peak_Plus]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gg3', '
') This November, vote like your life depends on it!

[seahorse2]

This USA Today article found by Dreamtwister just shows how 4th Amendment is dead - at least with respect to the Federal Government. As we discussed, the gov't is using private entities to collect data that the gov't would otherwise be prohibited from gathering on its own bc of the 4th Amendment. The USA Today article says the gov't has a data base of every phone call made of US citizens. Who knows, but just shows how out of hand this can get.

USA Today

[grabby]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jellric', 'I')f confirmed, he can join the rest of the gang!

[seahorse2]

Hayden confirmed as head of CIA. Neocons seem to be in complete control or at least the military has seized control of the CIA. Remember, that Hayden is still an active duty general, so he still answers to Rumsfeld, even though the article says he will be "independent" this isn't possible.


Yahoo News

[Polemic]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A') few months later, Ray learned through "back channels" that his post about the Base Camp planes had caused heads to roll somewhere in the shadowy world of military "black ops." Apparently, someone, somewhere, had lost a job because of Ray's photos. At a desert bar, one of his friends, a man with an unspecified connection to Base Camp, warned him over beers to "stop messing with those Base Camp guys or you'll wind up dead in the desert with two bullets in the back of your head."

[uNkNowN ElEmEnt]

Nerds Rule!... or will soon.