[TheTurtle]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', ' ')Indigenous societies are loaded with eclectic beliefs.

[cynthia]

Food for a Barn Raising: (From the Mennonite Community Cookbook: Favorite family Recipes by Emma Showalter)

115 lemon pies
500 fat cakes (doughnuts)
15 large cakes
3 gallons applesauce
3 gallons rice pudding
3 gallons cornstarch pudding
16 chickens
3 hams
50 pounds roast beef
300 light rolls
16 loaves of bread
Red beet pickle and pickled eggs
Cucumber pickle
6 pounds dried prunes
1 large crock stewed raisins
5 gallon stone jar white potatoes and the same amount of sweet potatoes.
Enough food for 175 men

This list was compiled long before Velveta was considered to be food.
Cynthia

[ab0di]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('frankthetank', 'I')sn't it true that they don't pay taxes(Amish)?

[Itch]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')here is one problem such cults doesn't solve: The issue of population growth. To my knowledge amish people have tons of kids and because of that their culture is not sustainable in the long run.

[backstop]

Itch -

Well said !

I would add that if they hadn't been villified in the commercial media for decades,
almost as badly as the hippies have been,
then they would not have been losing as many of their young people,
and many more ordinary Americans would have a far greater respect for the skills of simple sustainable living,
rather than spouting the commercial propaganda they've been taught so obediently.

regards,

Backstop

[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheTurtle', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', ' ')Indigenous societies are loaded with eclectic beliefs.

[syncline]

The Amish have a TFR of about 7, and suffer <15% dropout rates. Their numbers double every 25 years or so.

http://www.timesreporter.com/left.php?ID=29572&r=4

http://www.ruralsociology.org/annual-me ... ooksey.pdf

[TorrKing]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Itch', '
')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')ontraception could work, but natural contraceptions are either potentially dangerous (plants) or unpopular (intestines, doubt that there would be much feeling through it).

[NEOPO]

"ahh....Your mother has been telling stories about me again I see!"

[wisconsin_cur]

Some Mennonites begining to talk about Peak Oil

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he nightly news is filled with predictions of global warming, climate change, uncontrolled population growth and pandemic disease. But what are the consequences as we begin to run out of cheap oil?

We are faced with a global oil-production peak—the point where the ability to extract oil begins to contract. The United States reached its own oil peak around 1970 with U.S. production in steady decline since then. Today almost two-thirds of the oil that feeds America’s voracious appetite is imported.

The availability of cheap oil has accelerated a population shift from rural to urban and suburban areas. With what appeared to be unlimited supplies of cheap energy, farm machinery grew larger and the acreage needed to increase in order to pay for it. Farms got larger and families were displaced.

Oil also fed the “green revolution” by providing pesticides, fertilizers and herbicides. As agricultural production grew, so did the world’s population, now at over 6 billion people.
Cheap oil was the source of the growth that took place during most of the 20th century, and it is the primary transportation fuel used throughout the world today. Richard Heinberg, author of The Party’s Over: Oil War and the Fate of Industrial Societies says, “We don’t know exactly when the global peak will happen, but it will almost certainly occur in the early part of this century and possibly as soon as this year.” Heinberg said that in 2006.

The major difference between this oil crisis and the oil crises of the 1970’s is that this time it will be permanent—which may also exacerbate the consequences of climate change, epidemic disease and overpopulation.

China is now the number two consumer of oil in the world. China’s industrialization has made it dependent on oil imports that we in the United States also depend on—perhaps setting the stage for future conflict over control of these resources. As oil depletes, we will be required to downsize, rescale and rethink virtually everything we do. We will be impacted in just about every area of our lives. The cost of using fossil-fueled vehicles will become prohibitive. Clean municipal water may be threatened. Heating and air conditioning, and electric appliances, computers, and entertainment systems will be at risk.

James Howard Kunstler, author of The Long Emergency says, “No combinations of alternative fuels will allow us to run American life the way we have been used to running it, or even a substantial fraction of it.

“The wonders of steady technological progress achieved throughout the reign of cheap oil have lulled us into a kind of Jiminy Cricket syndrome, leading many Americans to believe that anything we wish for hard enough will come true. These days, even people who ought to know better are wishing ardently for a seamless transition from fossil fuels to their putative replacements.”

[patience]

Can't remember the source, but I read within the past year that, as a group, the Amish pay more taxes per farm than "English" farmers. Maybe they don't know all the loopholes, or maybe they are just more honest?

I have a lot of Amish and a few Mennonite customers, and we have a few good friends among both. From what the Amish tell me, elders decide what of modern life to allow in their communities, based on the idea of preventing undue dependence on our society to help retain their values. There is wide variation in how that is applied. The Old Order group near us is very restrictive, so my shop gets a lot of business converting rubber tired machinery to steel wheels and making ironwork for buggies and farm use. Other groups use much more of current technology. Amish tend to move from one group to another to seek a set of rules they are cormfortable with.

Despite the variations in their lifestyles, most of them have at least a very good start on living in a sustainable manner, and thus will have significantly less traumatic changes to make than most of us, depending on the degree that they depend on the modern world. The OP had that right, IMHO.

[PhebaAndThePilgrim]

Good day from Pheba, from the farm:
My ex-husband was a driver for the Amish for several years. If I had a choice between starving and dying, or joining the Amish, I would starve with glee.
First, the Amish have large families. The children are worked like dogs from the moment they can walk. Their children often get hurt because the Amish sect I witnessed seemed to be very bad parents. To me they seemed thoughtless and stupid concerning the safety of their children.
I can't tell you how many times my ex was called to take Amish to hospital to visit a hurt child. Kicked by horse, fell down a well, etc. I guess that is just a part of farm life when there are so many children. I never figured it out.
One way my ex made money was to bring Amish men to his house so they could view their pornographic VHS tapes on his television.
They had an extensive library that they stored at his house.
This was not my ex's ideal, they begged him to do this.
He also transported Amish to a firewood factory nearby and they had a tendency to either show up intoxicated or became intoxicated during lunch hour.
Amish women shopping tank up on cheap starch and fat at Aldis. They do not raise all of their own food any more than the rest of us.
They raise a vegetable garden, do some canning, and raise some of their own beef and chicken.
For the most part they purchase bread, flour, soap, shampoo, etc. just like the rest of us.
Their health problems are profound. They have as high an incidence of diabetes as the rest of us, probably from eating Aldis high starch, high fat , high sugar diet.
Their incidence of cancer is high, just like ours.
Their is also a high incidence of deformity, both mental and physical. Such family members are kept hidden from the general public and are kept at home.
The entire sect is paternal and women are treated poorly.
It is amazing that the girls can seem so beautiful, healthy, and fresh faced. There is a bloom about them.
After a few years of unceasing labor and never-ending baby-making the bloom is gone, and most of them look bloated and tired. I knew one woman with 17 children. None of the children had shoes. her house was a filthy mess.
I also knew a delightful Amish lady with only 2 children.
Birth control? She never would say, but she stopped at two children.
In the small town where I used to live it is impossible to rent a garage. All of the garages are rented by Amish boys.
They all have a cheap car. They sneak into town with horse and buggy and go riding around town in cars.
The Amish are forgiving until a youth reaches adulthood.
After adulthood such behavior results in being shunned.
Once during a visit to our small town pharmacy I noticed a bottle of medicine on a shelf called Lydia Pinkhams Female Remedy.
I learned from the pharmacist that the medication has been around over a hundred years. He told me that he could not keep it in stock. The Amish ladies bought it constantly.
I read the ingredients. Lydia Pinkham knew what she was about.
Her Female Remedy is 25 percent alcohol.
Have a great day.
PHeba.

[wisconsin_cur]

P&TP,

While in No Way arguing your experience, I would be careful about universalizing it. Many of the Amish around here came from out east. They left for two reasons, high land prices and "morally laxity." Now I am in no way close enough to anyone to ask them what "moral laxity " means, but reading your description I now have an idea.

We have all had bad experiences with people of a certain race or religion, or for that matter animals of a certain species. We know not to universalize that experience too much (or at least I hope we do).

I am sorry that your experience with your Amish has contained so much "moral laxity." Many of those I have known of errored on the other side... they were so morally rigid that it was hard to have a conversation with them.

cur

[Serial_Worrier]

Yeah but how will the Amish fend off the zombie hordes?

[wisconsin_cur]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Serial_Worrier', 'Y')eah but how will the Amish fend off the zombie hordes?

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TorrKing', '.')

[Pops]

As I mentioned a couple of years ago, the Amish have a stronger community, a better work ethic and fewer distractions/addictions via consumer goods than most in the US.

But make no mistake, they are dependent, just like the rest, of us on the overall economy and the price of energy.

As has been noted in this thread, they also suffer (I have learned) from standing out and being different just as any other minority; Baptist or Catholic, white or dark, tweaker or drunk does in the greater community. Through no fault of their own (aside from doing things differently) many of my neighbors talk bad about them - - - until they need some hands.

So as I have mentioned, my plan is to reduce my need for stuff, money, credit and energy. But to build my plan around an austere tradition rooted in the past yet funded largely by the extravagance of the oil-fueled-present, doesn't seem the way to go.

[oneplain1]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PhebaAndThePilgrim', 'G')ood day from Pheba, from the farm:
My ex-husband was a driver for the Amish for several years. If I had a choice between starving and dying, or joining the Amish, I would starve with glee.
First, the Amish have large families. The children are worked like dogs from the moment they can walk. Their children often get hurt because the Amish sect I witnessed seemed to be very bad parents. To me they seemed thoughtless and stupid concerning the safety of their children.
I can't tell you how many times my ex was called to take Amish to hospital to visit a hurt child. Kicked by horse, fell down a well, etc. I guess that is just a part of farm life when there are so many children. I never figured it out.
One way my ex made money was to bring Amish men to his house so they could view their pornographic VHS tapes on his television.
They had an extensive library that they stored at his house.
This was not my ex's ideal, they begged him to do this.
He also transported Amish to a firewood factory nearby and they had a tendency to either show up intoxicated or became intoxicated during lunch hour.
Amish women shopping tank up on cheap starch and fat at Aldis. They do not raise all of their own food any more than the rest of us.
They raise a vegetable garden, do some canning, and raise some of their own beef and chicken.
For the most part they purchase bread, flour, soap, shampoo, etc. just like the rest of us.
Their health problems are profound. They have as high an incidence of diabetes as the rest of us, probably from eating Aldis high starch, high fat , high sugar diet.
Their incidence of cancer is high, just like ours.
Their is also a high incidence of deformity, both mental and physical. Such family members are kept hidden from the general public and are kept at home.
The entire sect is paternal and women are treated poorly.
It is amazing that the girls can seem so beautiful, healthy, and fresh faced. There is a bloom about them.
After a few years of unceasing labor and never-ending baby-making the bloom is gone, and most of them look bloated and tired. I knew one woman with 17 children. None of the children had shoes. her house was a filthy mess.
I also knew a delightful Amish lady with only 2 children.
Birth control? She never would say, but she stopped at two children.
In the small town where I used to live it is impossible to rent a garage. All of the garages are rented by Amish boys.
They all have a cheap car. They sneak into town with horse and buggy and go riding around town in cars.
The Amish are forgiving until a youth reaches adulthood.
After adulthood such behavior results in being shunned.
Once during a visit to our small town pharmacy I noticed a bottle of medicine on a shelf called Lydia Pinkhams Female Remedy.
I learned from the pharmacist that the medication has been around over a hundred years. He told me that he could not keep it in stock. The Amish ladies bought it constantly.
I read the ingredients. Lydia Pinkham knew what she was about.
Her Female Remedy is 25 percent alcohol.
Have a great day.
PHeba.

[socrates1fan]

I may not agree with the Amish on a social aspect but as far as work and health goes they are pretty good about it.
There are fairly large Amish communities I have been to where people rely on themselves and the community, no imported goods, hummers, etc. It is refreshing but they don't speak to us regardless of how friendly we are.

[allenwrench]

Highly recommended...get em for the library.


http://www.experience-ohio-amish-countr ... rvive.html

http://www.amazon.com/Living-Without-El ... 093467261X