$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('untothislast', 'H')ere's a useful rule of thumb:
If it's dead - eat it.
If it's alive - don't kill it.
Everyone happy with that?
PeakOil is You
THE Energy & Meat Thread (merged)
Re: Biggest Waste of Oil=MEAT
by Doly » Fri 24 Feb 2006, 11:21:00
Definitely not. Fruit is alive when you eat it (otherwise it wouldn't ripen in the fruitbowl).
And it would make OK to eat animals that other people have killed, which is what most people do anyway.
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Doly - Expert
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Re: Biggest Waste of Oil=MEAT
by untothislast » Fri 24 Feb 2006, 11:47:44
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Doly', 'D')efinitely not. Fruit is alive when you eat it (otherwise it wouldn't ripen in the fruitbowl).
And it would make OK to eat animals that other people have killed, which is what most people do anyway.
And it would make OK to eat animals that other people have killed, which is what most people do anyway.
I thought we were back to talking about Peak Oil? Nevermind. This thread is a debate about the killing of animals - go start a 'fruit-killer' thread somewhere else, if the suffering of fruit and vegetables genuinely keeps you awake at night. By the way, 'fruit' is part of the propagative process employed by the tree (which stays alive). You eat an apple, the seeds pass through you - and you get a new tree. Have you got a problem with that? Show me someone who can eat bacon and shit piglets, and I'll bow to your superior wisdom.
It isn't OK to eat animals that other people have killed - for the same reason that people go to jail for employing hitmen. You still bear some responsibility for it happening - even if you didn't personally 'pull the trigger'.
Next? . . .
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untothislast - Tar Sands
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Re: Biggest Waste of Oil=MEAT
by untothislast » Fri 24 Feb 2006, 12:01:50
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('0mar', 'T')here is nothing inherently wrong with killing.
Killing has been part of the eco-system for ... 3 or so billion years now. Bacteria consume other bacteria for nutrients. Plants kill organisms to protect themselves and to eat (Venus Fly Traps). Animals kill plants and other animals for nutrients and in self-defense.
Human beings are no different. You can take offense to how meat is produced in our society, but to take offense to killing is simply asinine. You don't lament the billions of bacteria killed each day by your immune system. You don't lament over the thousands of insects killed each day by your actions (direct or indirect).
Also, untothislast, you stated before that animals act on instinct and that they are also sentient. Which is it buddy, you can't have it both ways. Either the tiger understands the gravity of its actions, or it acts on instinct and has no control over what it does. To claim that the tiger doesn't understand what it does and call it sentient is having your cake and eating it too.
Killing has been part of the eco-system for ... 3 or so billion years now. Bacteria consume other bacteria for nutrients. Plants kill organisms to protect themselves and to eat (Venus Fly Traps). Animals kill plants and other animals for nutrients and in self-defense.
Human beings are no different. You can take offense to how meat is produced in our society, but to take offense to killing is simply asinine. You don't lament the billions of bacteria killed each day by your immune system. You don't lament over the thousands of insects killed each day by your actions (direct or indirect).
Also, untothislast, you stated before that animals act on instinct and that they are also sentient. Which is it buddy, you can't have it both ways. Either the tiger understands the gravity of its actions, or it acts on instinct and has no control over what it does. To claim that the tiger doesn't understand what it does and call it sentient is having your cake and eating it too.
I thought we were going to talk about Peak Oil? Oh well . . .
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('0mar', 'T')here is nothing inherently wrong with killing.
Yes there is - at the end of the spectrum we inhabit, where we know our actions will cause distress to other species capable of expressing pain, sense of personal survival and emotion. Therefore I can walk on grass all day long without undue concern, but would draw the line at walking on puppies. Hopefully, so would you.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('0mar', 'Y')ou don't lament the billions of bacteria killed each day by your immune system. You don't lament over the thousands of insects killed each day by your actions
You're right, I don't. I wonder why? As to your second point though, it's valid - and I agree with you. I do take care not to cause harm to insects, on a personal daily basis, but my vegetarianism (unless strictly organic) obviously involves the use of pesticides, so I'm guilty as charged.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('0mar', 'A')lso, untothislast, you stated before that animals act on instinct and that they are also sentient. Which is it buddy, you can't have it both ways.
Yes you can. You and I are both sentient - yet, in certain instances, our instinct will govern our actions before rational thought can take control. It's up to humans, having developed moral and ethical references by which to judge our behaviour, to apply them. Other animals, apparently not having reached this level of introspective insight, have an excuse for not doing so.
