$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Doly', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mididoctors', '
')so the promotion of a low energy diet better go in hand with abstinence from hydroponic cannabis..
PeakOil is You
THE Energy & Meat Thread (merged)
Re: Biggest Waste of Oil=MEAT
by mididoctors » Mon 06 Mar 2006, 09:57:29
Agreed. In fact, most drugs (including tobacco and coffee, but with the exception of laboratory drugs) are transported from long distances to the user, and often in very fast transportation. So one should abstain from them. In fact, to be completely peak-oil aware, one should abstain from any drug that one hasn't manufactured at home, because you never know where drugs come from.
transportation is a complex issue
bulk transport by ship is very efficient and has little energy impact by mass on the cargo compared to transportation by road on distribution from ports or not using river/rail networks
its not clear if the quoted 1/4 pounder figure includes transportation
as for the utility of the drug vs its cost in energy? my own view is if a significantly lower energy alternative is possible you probably would be wise to take it..
a cannabis smoker should really look to greenhouse grown product perhaps?
I think meat eaters should moderate there consumption of meat as it appears that we require little in the way of meat/dairy as a supplement (or any if you plan a decent vegan diet).. this can be quite radical reducing meat to one sitting a week.
I think denying people the right to taste meat or smoke cannabis is not the aim of "awareness"
Boris
London
Last edited by mididoctors on Mon 06 Mar 2006, 14:20:36, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Biggest Waste of Oil=MEAT
by smallpoxgirl » Mon 06 Mar 2006, 13:21:39
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('untothislast', 'C')louseau2 isn't saying you'd get a 20x increase in population - the point is, you'd free up available resources to feed 20x more of the existing people.
Yes. I understand that. The point is we've already had a 20x increase. We've gotten ourselves to the point where we're out of room. The wilderness is gone, the wildlife are going. The rivers and air are all polluted. They are being poisoned by a metastatic cancer of humans. So the vegan crowd looks at this and says, all we have to do it quit eating meat and then we won't have to deal with our population problem or our lifestyle problem. And Lorenzo says, all we have to do is plant mystery crop x and convert our cars to run on biofuel and we won't have to deal with our population problem or our lifestyle problem. And George Bush says, all we have to do is "liberate" the Middle East and take their oil and we won't have to deal with our population problem or our lifestyle problem.
And I'm saying to you, our problems are population and lifestyle and we have to deal with them. Trying to make omnivorous humans into ruminants is not a workable solution. My ancestors have been eating meat since long before they evolved into homo sapiens. Humans will be eating meat for millenia after I'm dead. That's assuming we don't kill our selves off in the next century from overpopulation and destructive lifestyles. Veganism is a bandaid. It covers the problem over and allows you to ignore it for a while as it festers. The problems are the industrial lifestyle and overpopulation and they HAVE to be dealt with.
"We were standing on the edges
Of a thousand burning bridges
Sifting through the ashes every day
What we thought would never end
Now is nothing more than a memory
The way things were before
I lost my way" - OCMS
Of a thousand burning bridges
Sifting through the ashes every day
What we thought would never end
Now is nothing more than a memory
The way things were before
I lost my way" - OCMS
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smallpoxgirl - Expert
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Re: Biggest Waste of Oil=MEAT
by untothislast » Tue 07 Mar 2006, 07:49:23
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('untothislast', 'C')louseau2 isn't saying you'd get a 20x increase in population - the point is, you'd free up available resources to feed 20x more of the existing people.
Yes. I understand that. The point is we've already had a 20x increase. We've gotten ourselves to the point where we're out of room. The wilderness is gone, the wildlife are going. The rivers and air are all polluted. They are being poisoned by a metastatic cancer of humans. So the vegan crowd looks at this and says, all we have to do it quit eating meat and then we won't have to deal with our population problem or our lifestyle problem.
Who cares about the 'vegan crowd'? - I'm promoting vegetarianism. And whichever way you want to look at it, we're going to be able to feed a lot more people on a vegetarian diet, than we ever will by wasting all that feedgrain and water on raising cattle. The latter system is grossly inefficient at maximising available resources, and only makes sense as a business exercise for those who happen to reap the profits at the end of the process.
I've never heard of anyone, vegan or otherwise, say 'all we have to do is quit eating meat and then we won't have to deal with our population problem or our lifestyle problem'. It may surprise you, but adopting vegetarianism doesn't diminish your capacity for rational thought, or for making realistic appraisals of global problems.
I suspect you just made that one up to suit your own purposes.
Check out some relevant statistics here:
http://www.veg.ca/issues/enintro.html
And yes, people will carry on eating meat - in some capacity - for the rest of recorded time. There just won't be as many of them able to make that choice as there are today. The economics of the situation - particularly post peak-oil - will be making the choice for them.
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