[PWALPOCO]

Worse than I think ?

For about 12 months now everything to do with the climate , or the ice melting has featured ....

[align=center]Quicker
Sooner
Faster
Worse[/align]

basically eveytime theres an estimate of something , its usually something bad will happen in half the time we thought , or itll be twice as high as we thought or it will be twice as hot as we thought ... or there will be twice as much as we thought.

And even better , when I read discussion about the fixes , some say if we totally stop doing this that or the other , weve already stowed up trouble for the next god knows how long.

Basically now when I hear estimates about how long somethings going to take to happen , I just halve it , coz thats what the next estimate will say when it appears.

The classic was reading about the ocean conveyor system throwing a wobbler. Oh that thing ? From that film The Day After Whenever ? Oh sure , it can happen , in a bazillion years ..... oh wait , somethings happening already ? Darn.

As far as Im concerned , the environments had it. I see absolutely no way anything meaningful is going to happen until something so monsterously catastrophic and blatantly "climate change" induced happens. Fullstop.

The warning signals are all there. If planet earth were a human patient the village doctor would be looking rather worried at the vital signs and calling an ambulance to get it off to intensive care. As far as I can see , the village doctor is the village idiot , prescribed a placebo and sent the coughing patient home to die.

Paul

[Ludi]

Yes, if you keep up with the recent reports from those looking at the sea ice and its effects, this is all happening much much faster than the climatologists expected. Far from being wacky doomsayers, seems they were mostly being far too conservative in their projections.

[TheTurtle]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', ' ') Far from being wacky doomsayers, seems they were mostly being far too conservative in their projections.

[Heineken]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PWALPOCO', 'W')orse than I think ?

For about 12 months now everything to do with the climate , or the ice melting has featured ....

[align=center]Quicker
Sooner
Faster
Worse[/align]

basically eveytime theres an estimate of something , its usually something bad will happen in half the time we thought , or itll be twice as high as we thought or it will be twice as hot as we thought ... or there will be twice as much as we thought.

And even better , when I read discussion about the fixes , some say if we totally stop doing this that or the other , weve already stowed up trouble for the next god knows how long.

Basically now when I hear estimates about how long somethings going to take to happen , I just halve it , coz thats what the next estimate will say when it appears.

The classic was reading about the ocean conveyor system throwing a wobbler. Oh that thing ? From that film The Day After Whenever ? Oh sure , it can happen , in a bazillion years ..... oh wait , somethings happening already ? Darn.

As far as Im concerned , the environments had it. I see absolutely no way anything meaningful is going to happen until something so monsterously catastrophic and blatantly "climate change" induced happens. Fullstop.

The warning signals are all there. If planet earth were a human patient the village doctor would be looking rather worried at the vital signs and calling an ambulance to get it off to intensive care. As far as I can see , the village doctor is the village idiot , prescribed a placebo and sent the coughing patient home to die.

Paul

[mekrob]

Now why would Bush want to silence his great "Liberation" of the water from the wicked and evil ice?

[Antimatter]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'Y')es, if you keep up with the recent reports from those looking at the sea ice and its effects, this is all happening much much faster than the climatologists expected. Far from being wacky doomsayers, seems they were mostly being far too conservative in their projections.

[katkinkate]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PWALPOCO', '.')..... If planet earth were a human patient the village doctor would be looking rather worried at the vital signs and calling an ambulance to get it off to intensive care. As far as I can see , the village doctor is the village idiot , prescribed a placebo and sent the coughing patient home to die.

Paul

[untothislast]

Part of our problem, as humans, is that we insist on interpreting everything in nature from a point where people are fixed at the centre. Our religions have even been devised to interpret the vast expanse of the universe as merely a stage created for humans to strut upon.

The fact is, there are millions lifeforms on this planet, going about quite successfully, without even noticing we exist. More to the point they, being less demanding for their needs on the natural environment than we are, will amble alng quite happily long after we've gone.

We are part of a larger organism - we don't just live on it, as if it were a chunk of real estate. Our inability to deal with this crucial distinction lies at the root of every problem we've ever created for ourselves. Our time maybe nearly up. Something else comes to the forefront. That's the way it works. Sad to relate, but the planet may do a lot better - to continue sustaining the lives of all its other less-destructive children - without us around.

'I met a traveler from an antique land
Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read,
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them, and the heart that fed,
And on the pedestal these words appear:
"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look upon my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.'

Shelley.

[kochevnik]

I think there is some clear scientific evidence that Global Warming is a very debateable theory - and it is JUST a theory, not a fact. Crichton's book for one really put a lot of global warming faddists on notice that they were on thin ice (pun intended). For example Greenland has been both cooling and adding millions of tons of ice onto the interior ice sheet for many decades. Crichton finished his book with HUNDREDS of references to scientific evidence that supports the idea that global warming is not all it seems to be.

I don't know what the truth is, but anything that gets such widespread hysterical approval with such dubious science behind it moves my bullshit meter to the top of the scale. In comparison, PO has a mountain of scientific proof behind it - yet look how few people there are in the world supporting this position.

[coyote]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kochevnik', ':')!:

I think there is some clear scientific evidence that Global Warming is a very debateable theory - and it is JUST a theory, not a fact. Crichton's book for one really put a lot of global warming faddists on notice that they were on thin ice (pun intended). For example Greenland has been both cooling and adding millions of tons of ice onto the interior ice sheet for many decades. Crichton finished his book with HUNDREDS of references to scientific evidence that supports the idea that global warming is not all it seems to be.

I don't know what the truth is, but anything that gets such widespread hysterical approval with such dubious science behind it moves my bullshit meter to the top of the scale. In comparison, PO has a mountain of scientific proof behind it - yet look how few people there are in the world supporting this position.

[Liamj]

No disrespect Kochevnik, but I'm wondering how long the professional climate change deniers like M.Crighton will persist in their doubt. Till the UK Houses of Parliament flood? Till malaria makes Cornwall uninhabitable? Till the winter olympics have to be cancelled for lack of snow? Till the RightThink Tanks stop funding their books & talks?
The material evidence is overwhelming that our climate is changing at a fairly brisk clip. Arguments about the mechanisms (see neoliberals sudden and inarticulate enthusiasm for solar flares and polar wobbles) are important, but theres no denying we live in meteorologically unique times.

[grabby]

Ok, I haven't heard that one yet,,,

tell us about arctic bacteria?

[rockdoc123]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')here is a near worldwide consensus among scientists on this issue, the likes of which are rarely seen in the scientific community

[coyote]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rockdoc123', 'I')'m sorry but I have to repeat myself for the upteenth millionth time...there is no concensus....there was never a vote taken. Concensus implies everyone agrees...

[gg3]

The consequences of a mistaken belief that climate change is unproven, are far worse than the consequences of a mistaken belief that climate change is occurring and caused by humans.

Simple pragmatism says 'tis better to take a conservative approach here (operate under the unfavorable assumptions) rather than take a wild risky gamble that may not be possible to undo.

This is basic business planning 101: always plan based on unfavorable scenarios, rather than favorable ones.

Anyone who doesn't agree is welcome to send me a check for the amount of money presently in their savings accounts and investment accounts. I promise I'll get you a yield of 50% in a year. Any takers...?

[rockdoc123]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') respect your opinion, you're certainly more of an expert than I am; but I'm still waiting for someone to actually visit those sources, and then come back and convince the board that they know more about climate change than all those scientific institutions do. Fair enough?

[Odin]

Climate Change deniers are in the same catagory as creationists and holocaust deniers.

[Zardoz]

Greenland's Ice Sheet Is Slip-Sliding Away

In early May, temperatures on the ice cap some days were almost 20 degrees above normal, hovering just below freezing.

From cores of ancient Greenland ice extracted by the National Science Foundation, researchers have identified at least 20 sudden climate changes in the last 110,000 years, in which average temperatures fluctuated as much as 15 degrees in a single decade.

Normal warming, or human-induced this time? If we're doing it, will it be worse than a normal fluctuation? If the melt keeps accelerating, could the inrush of fresh water screw up the Gulf Stream and cause it to stop, bringing horrendously cold winters to Europe?

All we can be sure of is that this can't be good.

[shakespear1]

Yes, I read this and felt a bit uneasy and helpless. Amazing how none of this seems to sink in anywhere.

I sometime discuss issues of over fishing, pollution, genetically modified food etc. and see that a lot of this just does not seem real or of immediate relevance to most peop

[Raxozanne]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', '[')url=http://www.latimes.com/news/science/la-sci-greenland25jun25,0,1900887,full.story?coll=la-home-headlines]Greenland's Ice Sheet Is Slip-Sliding Away[/url]

In early May, temperatures on the ice cap some days were almost 20 degrees above normal, hovering just below freezing.

From cores of ancient Greenland ice extracted by the National Science Foundation, researchers have identified at least 20 sudden climate changes in the last 110,000 years, in which average temperatures fluctuated as much as 15 degrees in a single decade.