[Heineken]

Very well and persuasively stated, gego.

It isn't just the government and the religious establishment, though. It's the medicos themselves. They don't want to give up absolute power over a patient's progress, including how a patient dies. There's a lot of money to be made in keeping patients alive to the last possible instant, no matter what torments and indignities such hopeless efforts foist upon the patient, and the health care establishment isn't going to easily give up those $$ and that power.

What I want to know from a suicide opponent is what the patient dying of terminal bone cancer who is in dreadful pain and pooping all over the place is supposed to do in the absence of any medical or palliative care.

[AmericanEmpire]

I think that as things deteriorate post peak many people will look to suicide to end the pain and suffering. Lack of proper medical care and basics to living will make life miserable for many.

I believe it makes sense for society to provide a rational way out of the mess for people who won't have options. Especially since this country will eventually be defaulting on paying out things like social security and medicare that old and sick people depend on.

[AmericanEmpire]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')ould be, but if I'm diagnosed with Alzheimer's or another form of dementia and still have enough marbles left to comprehend and hang on to the diagnosis, I will quickly off myself.

[Tyler_JC]

AmericanEmpire, please stop openly advocating suicide.

First off, it makes you look like a whiny, defeatest individual.

Secondly, you risk breaking the Code of Conduct by suggesting that we commit an illegal act.

Lastly, you are really starting to irrate people.

Just a friendly word of caution.

(the same could be said about Heineken, etc.)

[coyote]

Many people do not understand the definition of 'liberty,' as defined by Locke and understood by our founding fathers. Distilling and paraphrasing a lot of rhetoric, it's this: you have the freedom to do whatever you want with your own life and property, as long as you're not interfering with someone else's right to do the same. Suicide clearly falls within this range. I'm stunned that most Americans graduate from high school still not understanding the vital concept of liberty; because ignorance is the easiest way to lose it.

[crapattack]

Bang on Coyote. Of course they don't understand because they are not getting a proper education any more, but that is for another thread. But you've hit the nail on the head - the fundemental issues of how much does the state have the right to interfere in our lives if we aren't interfering anyone esle's rights. Suicide is very much positioned right in the center of that issue.

Have you read the "social contract" by Rousseau?

http://www.constitution.org/jjr/socon.htm

[Heineken]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'A')mericanEmpire, please stop openly advocating suicide.

First off, it makes you look like a whiny, defeatest individual.

Secondly, you risk breaking the Code of Conduct by suggesting that we commit an illegal act.

Lastly, you are really starting to irrate people.

Just a friendly word of caution.

(the same could be said about Heineken, etc.)

[JustinFrankl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'A')mericanEmpire, please stop openly advocating suicide.
First off, it makes you look like a whiny, defeatest individual.
Secondly, you risk breaking the Code of Conduct by suggesting that we commit an illegal act.
Lastly, you are really starting to irrate people.
Just a friendly word of caution.
(the same could be said about Heineken, etc.)

[Heineken]

Thanks Justin. I think Tyler_JC should apologize for his ill-considered post.

[crapattack]

Heineken wrote:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') think Tyler_JC should apologize for his ill-considered post.

[coyote]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('crapattack', '
')Have you read the "social contract" by Rousseau?

http://www.constitution.org/jjr/socon.htm

[galacticsurfer]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AmericanEmpire', 'W')hat I find totally stupid about our current society is that considering the overpopulation problem we should support as many people as we can who want to end it all.

Instead we prolong life as long as possible with as many people as possible, through medical technology to the point of even hooking people up to machines when there bodies have no way of surviving on their own.

We are willing to be humane and put down a pet when its in incurable pain but not a human. Its ridiculous.

I'd guess it goes back to valuing human life over anything else in the natural world. The whole reason we are in this stupid mess.

[Doly]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('galacticsurfer', 'I')n a great depression post PO we will all lose everything so suicide is no option. Suicide in that case would show cowardice in the face of difficulty.

[elroy]

Totally gonna loot your corpse & home when you commit suicide

[RonMN]

I'm so distraught...I'm so upset...There is NO butter with our 500 pound thanks giving meal!

This is TORTURE! I'm going to go kill myself!

I stand by what i said on page 1...grow up you fucking yellow cowardly bastards! Quit glorifying suicide!

[crapattack]

RonNM said:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') stand by what i said on page 1...grow up you fucking yellow cowardly bastards! Quit glorifying suicide!

[crow]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('crapattack', 'R')onNM said:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') stand by what i said on page 1...grow up you fucking yellow cowardly bastards! Quit glorifying suicide!

[crapattack]

Crow, is there anything wrong with suicide other than it is performed by what you call the "weak" and "feeble minded"?

If someone strong and brave were to do it as part of their culture, like Japanese samauri, is it still wrong in your opinion, and what makes it wrong.

[crow]

Yes it is still wrong in my opinion although circumstances does mittigate the guilt behind the act, such as extraordinary circumstances of pian, suffering or simple social pressure.

Suicide is the destruction of a human life, which, granted might not want to live any longer, but it remains the destruction of a human life. i believe in the sanctity of a human being; if you do not, then none of my arguments will be accpetable to you.

If you value human dignity with the number of toes you have, or your ability to obtain food or fancy cars, if you value human dignity with pleasure on demand and the avoidance of pain and anything similar to this, then suicide will be acceptable.

If you value human whims and wants above human needs and life itself, nothing that can be said to you will ever convince you of the value of every human life, nor that suicide is not a valid option.


If you believe that suicide is a genuine, viable option, then what value do you put on your own life? Obviously not much. Worst still is probably the little value you put on someone's elses life, who in a situation where you would deisre death they might desire life; but if you have any power over them, you would deny them this life from a false sense of pity.

[Raxozanne]

I think it can get dangerous in any situation when a person/group are so convinced they know what is best for another that they ignore what that individual in question feels/thinks. Just a general observation.