[sharpie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', ' ')This isn't just about an "immigration emergency". It's about Immigrations assuming "law enforcement functions" in a "national emergency" to support "a number of key homeland security priorities".

[gego]

Remember Bartlett talking about any rate of growth eventually brings about a doubling.

When the US was incorporated in 1776 the level of government was miniscule, but it had a positive growth rate. It eventually doubled, and doubled again, etc. It will keep growing, redoubling, until it finally fails, but in the later stages, it will become extremely agressive in an attempt to preserve itself. We are entering the stage where resistance will become significant and the force that government will use to overcome this resistance will be extreme. Concentration camps are just the friendly first stage; the last stage is just outright roundup and immediate execution, al. la. Stalin's execution of 40 million.

Not many will object, as the initial internees will be just who they are now, enemies of the state. What objection would you have to adding to the internees sexual predetors? How about adding suspected domestic terrorist (skinheads, etc)? What about adding tax resisters not paying their share? Eventually the categories considered enemies of the state may include those who fail to keep up their lawns; it will just take a little time and conditioning for nobody to openly object.

This is just how government can exterminate YOU while your neighbors stand silent in fear of their own survival. Ask on old German or Russian if you don't understand how it works.

[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pilferage', 'S')o that's shrapnel then? I wouldn't think the bullets from a high powered gun like that would strike a car and fly off at perpendicular angles.

[ozkrenske]

Miniguns, for all who are still interested,

First up that demo shoot appeared to have been at 3000 Rpm (I have suspicion some sequences were down rated to 1500Rpm).

SOP is for either 1 in 20 or 1 in 15 rounds to be a tracer in minigun fire (1 in 5 or 10 for standard machine guns if any.). So for each streak down range, multiply by at least 15 for the non tracers.

Now most targets appeared to be metallic car shells. These have lots of fairly sturdy pieces of metal as well as engines, the background also appeared rocky and dry as well. Most of the shooting was also happening from a shallow angle. These are perfect conditions for ricochettes. As to ricochettes most of the scatter was indeed that. How to tell; well tracers burn out at a set time and this is very consistent. In many of the shots you can see the projectiles glance away and then the just blink out after another half second. This was hapening consistently at the same delay. This is the tracers burning out 1 or 1.5 seconds after firing. The showers of sparks erupting on target was more your traditional splash shrapnel and tracer remnants.

Now traces are usually a little lighter than standard ball amunition so they do have a 20 to 30% greater chance of glancing.

I have fired 30 round magazines of 5.56mm tracer at shalow angle to water and had the whole burst bounce. 7.62mm had to be a bit shallower angle but still bounced off water. .50cal also bounces well. My record was 6 observed bounces of a .50 call shot over a 2 mile lake before hitting tree's on the other side. It was done to show recruits that firing danger space is generally 3-5 times greater than what is considered th effective range of weapons. (the maximum danger distance for DS tank ammunition is actually 30+ times geater than effective range. 115km for 105mm and 145 for 120mm.)

Note that ballistically almost anything can ricochette. There were reports of Japanese 8 and 18 inch armour peircing shells (2 tonnes for the later) bouncing at shallow angles off the water, after passing through US escort carriers, at Leyte Gulf during WW2. After action reports from British gun duels and after aerial straffing also indicated that a significant proportion of shell damage to vessels under attack was caused by rising shells. For that to occur they have to of bounced off the sea surface short of the target.

I have observed Aussie troops deleberately bouncing rounds from Leopard tanks out to sea from Shoalwater bay, and had a discussion with them about the fact the rounds probably landed over the horizon from their viewpoint.

Even during the Falkland war in 82 there were many ricochettes. At least three 500+ pound bombs described elevating paths through British ships before coming out the other side. Classic skip bombing.

It was the Boers during their failed war of resistance to British Imperialism who first noticed rifle fire ricochette effects. They even changed tactics from firing from elevation (from hill tops) to firing flat (from trenches and sangers) to take advantage of ricochette and misses effecting large areas down range on the battlefield.

And yes, I know way to much about this stuff.

[Zardoz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ozkrenske', 'M')iniguns, for all who are still interested...And yes, I know way too much about this stuff.

[ozkrenske]

It is probably mind games. Announce you have terrible weapon and it may just discourage a number of protestors. Not all but enough to make the crowds smaller and therefore easier to handle. Also makes the active protestors a more obvious minority and makes it easier to justify them as fringe dwellers.

[eric_b]

Footage from an under construction american internment camp?
If you want to trip-out on some creepy conspiracy theory sh*t, check out this google video: link

Supposedly is covertly taken footage of some sort of camp being built in a huge abandoned Amtrak facility in Beachgrove Indiana. Perhaps one of many (FEMA??) camps being built throughout the US. Check it out... best part is when the black helicoptor flies overhead.

Multiple layers of fencing, giant turnstils, helicoptor windsocks, a communication tower and military vehicles. Like something out of an x-files episode. link

[Cyrus]

Ok, now that's fucking scary.

[J-Rod]

I tried to watch that with a heavy dose of skepticism. But I do Find it hard to believe that this is a facility for fixing trains. Pretty wild stuff there. I just recently saw on the news Sen. Clinton had teamed up with Sen. Trent Lott for FEMA reform, to get them out from under the jurisdiction of DHS and become a standalone entity, with the head able to talk directly with the President. Question is, is that good or bad? Or does it even matter?

[LadyRuby]

Also being a natural skeptic, I'm thinking this is just how rail maintenance facilities are protected. So this may be nothing at all, just another rumour: Transit security

Also, the red and green zones, seems to be a safety feature: Rail facilities and red and green zone safety

[Leanan]

The government freely admit it's building camps. Supposedly in case of an "immigration crisis," or another Katrina-like disaster.

[LadyRuby]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Leanan', 'T')he government freely admit it's building camps. Supposedly in case of an "immigration crisis," or another Katrina-like disaster.

[MD]

There was little in the footage that was out of the ordinary. Security measures as shown can be found at manufacturing facilities all over America. I have been in many of them with equally rigorous measures where nothing was being produced but common household goods.
The narration is obviously trying to paint this place as an american Auschwitz with the references to gas lines, furnaces, and train load of people. There is no story there.

[LadyRuby]

Now what WOULD make this interesting would be to see what would happen if Amtrak vacates this facility. Would Indiana redevelop this site for commercial and other use, or will someone else "buy" the facility? Worth paying attention to, but for now it just looks like fear-mongering.

Amtrak trains are still running in Michigan despite budget cuts

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'G')overnor Granholm signed into law the FY 2006 budget act (P.A. 158) which authorizes $6.1 million for operation of the Blue Water and Pere Marquette trains for the budget year. The act requires that both trains run on a 7-day per week schedule and serve all cities along their routes. The act also provides for penalties if Amtrak chooses to eliminate any of the service prior to the end of the budget year (September 30, 2006).

The act also requires MDOT to work toward finding ways to reduce expenses of operating the trains. This could mean a number of things, such as station staffing, food service, and other operational costs.

There is a provision for increasing the funding level to $7.1 million if Amtrak signs an agreement to move its Beech Grove, Indiana equipment repair and maintenance operation to Battle Creek. Amtrak has already indicated that this is unlikely to occur.

[J-Rod]

Yeah, for me when they made a point about the "quite large furnaces, with lines that ran the length of the building" I could see the cremation reference. At that point I saw what the bias of the video was. If we are serious about protecting infrastructure like ports and airways, rail should follow suit.

[smiley]

I'm pretty skeptical about these kind of things. But I find it hard to believe that this is a normal railway maintenance facility. The turnstiles are designed for large flows of people. Not for a small maintenance crew, But then again, I can't be convinced that this is a prison either. Security is much to light.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he government freely admit it's building camps. Supposedly in case of an "immigration crisis," or another Katrina-like disaster.

[Free]

Give me a break, this is just a normal industrial compound. Highly ridiculous, just look at the cheesy fences, a stampede of about 50 people would be enough to run them into the ground.
Watchtower? It's a normal radio antenna for gods sake, and every single one that large has a ladder for maintenance! Watchtower my a**...

Oh yeah and then the "black helicopter". Guess what, I also see helicopters flying overhead sometimes, and I don't assume automatically that they are watching me. And I thought that I suffered from paranoia...

[smiley]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'O')h yeah and then the "black helicopter". Guess what, I also see helicopters flying overhead sometimes, and I don't assume automatically that they are watching me

[LadyRuby]

My take is that all these extra security features (fences, turnstiles) were all just Homeland Security pork.

[Schweinshaxe]

If you look at the fences, you can clearly see that they are designed to stop people from getting OUT. Not getting IN.