[winfixer]

I think much older.

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Winfixer 2005

[MicroHydro]

Thank you, thank you, thank you! I have been enlightened a great deal by all of the posters.

I wish to apologize for abandoning my own thread for a few weeks. I have been very busy moving over 10,000km. Finally things are settling down.

I agree with gg3, ideally it is Asimov Foundation time. Unfortunately, Hari Seldon had funding from the Galactic Empire itself. I don't see the NWO funding any sort of civilized refuge. They are preparing for a return to feudalism. CIA director Porter Goss has a 500 acre organic farm. This follows the construction of off the grid compounds by GW Bush and Al Gore. Maybe the elite are strung out on drugs, but the people who should know best are doomers.

I just moved into a 21st century home that has no space heating or cooling, (this is normal in Waikato), there is a grid powered electric water heater. I have a car but it is very small, and I drive less than I used to. So I am still living the oil age lifestyle, but significantly powered down from my former life in North America. Thanks to Genesis Energy, I got to occupy the home on a cold rainy day with no power. Definitely less comfortable than what I have been accustomed to. Did I think powerdown was going to be all fun? WHAT WAS I THINKING!!!

[Guest]

Like a previous poster, I am 33. I never heard the term "peak oil" until 2003.

The weird thing is, in high school I had the good fortune to attend a semester-long program in on an organic farm in Vermont. We studied the debate on overpopulation--Julian Simon, etc. The school had a strong emphasis on the environment and sustainability. I did a project on CFCs and the ozone layer. We lived close to the land, and I appreciated the value of that.

Yet, even with those advantages (combined with a healthy skepticism for the American status quo) I never really connected the dots. I knew that American culture was messed up--too much TV, too much praise for the "free market," not enough attention paid to the fact that the much-vaunted market is not truly free because a truly free market is a function of free information (sorely lacking).

I got involved with politics (Howard Dean) after the birth of my daughter, but even with that it took about a year before I caught on to peak oil. I starting digging in and educating myself and changing my lifestyle. I now think that my trust in our political system was utterly misguided. NO ONE in power really wants to make big and necessary changes.

Jimmy Carter looks better and better, the smaller he gets in the rear-view mirror. The truth hurts, and Band-Aids are easy to find on both sides of the aisle.

[GenghisKen]

I am 38 left home when I was 15. Rode the rails for two years saw the end of the caboose in that short time. Met up with a traveling Singpainter who taught me a dying trade(all went vinyl letters,computer and no skill). Had no computer or access was only worried about making the money in each town to get to the next town(traveled a wide circuit in the western states Idaho summer arizona winter)Pulling my home behind me, first a camper trailer then one I built myself. Sales was the key as was return customers so that everytime I came back to a town I had the same customers and that they would want touch-up work or more signs and they had a new friend that needed something(most of the towns were too small to support a full time signpainter).
Gasoline I used as paint thinner(it evaporates quickly and doesnt thin the paints permantly, So I could paint in all temps by using dif amounts of thinner which was really handy when weather was colder than usual or hotter than usual). I was living.. I had no internet and had no time to contemplate my "Thinner' running out.
Settled down opened a shop met a wonderful australian woman and moved there(Here). Found PeakOil site (Matts) on accident. Since then been planning on the road again, as I see very little land that can support people permenatly today, and if you think you can just start farming by hand and things will be alright you are kidding yerself just as much as the economists are in their own way.
So to anser Your question... I was busy living(surviving) as from what I have read in this post.. many others were too.

Good Luck All. we gonna need it

[threadbear]

Micro Hydro--Happy to hear all is well! What an adventure! You must be so relieved to be there and getting settled. Please keep us informed about New Zealand. More and more people seem to want to move there.

Ghenghis --What a life you've led so far --and living such a cool life is the best reason I've heard for being ignorant of the peak oil problem.

[ubercynicmeister]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MicroHydro', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lowem', 'T')hey don't teach that stuff in school anyway.

[threadbear]

UBCynicmaster--Self praise is no praise, so allow me to join you. You may be technically unemployed but you've have had more of a job than most people with your efforts in steam. I'd like to know more about this. Could you direct me to some site? I suppose you think it's a much better idea than biodiesel for boats?

My deepest sympathies for the timing issue. People working in economies that are more resource dependant are even more deeply affected by business cycles. Well at least you avoided the dot com collapse, so there's always something to be grateful for.

[ubercynicmeister]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'U')BCynicmaster--Self praise is no praise, so allow me to join you. You may be technically unemployed but you've have had more of a job than most people with your efforts in steam. I'd like to know more about this. Could you direct me to some site? I suppose you think it's a much better idea than biodiesel for boats?

My deepest sympathies for the timing issue. People working in economies that are more resource dependant are even more deeply affected by business cycles. Well at least you avoided the dot com collapse, so there's always something to be grateful for.

[threadbear]

Thanks UberCM. I'll be looking at that--there's something endearing, quaint about old steam engines. They're really kind of beautiful--hardly boring.

Steam, It's HOT. SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

[Guest]

I was born in 63 and pretty much have always been aware of the incredibly waste around me (from living for a year in Southern California at age 7) but not so articulate about the precise consequences nor that the idea of running out had a specific name.

That I have two ABET-accredited engineering degrees is an aside. I honestly don't think it makes me any more appreciative of the details.

[MicroHydro]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ubercynicmeister', 'U')m, Microhydro....please tell me you have heard of Political Correctness' Dumbing Down of all education?

[malcomatic_51]

MicroHydro,

Personally, I was 37 in 2000, and I am an engineer, so I have no excuses at all. My answer is I think quite typical of technocratic folk. The answer is, I wasn't really thinking about it. I am just old enough to remember the first Oil Crisis in 1973 and also the 1979/80 oil crisis. They've been saying "we've only 30 years oil left" for as long as I can remember. The implication is that we discover more as we use more. This impression was probably picked up from the North Sea oil field discoveries and the inflation of OPEC reserves in the 1980s. I think the reason so few otherwise educated, enquiring people have picked up on PO is simply that the message of "constant years of oil" has made a deep impression. We've always been running out of oil and oil has generally fallen in price, so we've been condioned to ignore danger signals.

A very important point is the attitude of authority. If sovereign authority informed us about PO, then people generally would start to take it seriously. This is because, unfortunately even amongst academics about 90+% of people have to be told what to believe because they don't have the courage or the determination to make their own minds up. Even now there is almost no sovereign patronage granted to PO, so the masses haven't a scooby's about it and if you try to explain it to them you get nowhere. If nobody knows about PO, then it can't be anything to worry about, can it?

Actually, the messages were there for those prepared to read them. Sir David Barran was quite emphatic in saying 30 years ago that the world would run out of capacity about now unless there were major new finds. So, there were those in the know, who were powerful, but were not listened to.

The future will view us as loons for the way we got caught out by an open secret, but that's what will happen. It will happen because of the nature of the human mind. Too few people are inquiring. Too few are capable of holding a contrarian view in the face of mass ignorance. Political leaders of real courage and wisdom just weren't on duty to provide leadership.

[MicroHydro]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('malcomatic_51', 'T')he future will view us as loons for the way we got caught out by an open secret, but that's what will happen. It will happen because of the nature of the human mind. Too few people are inquiring. Too few are capable of holding a contrarian view in the face of mass ignorance. Political leaders of real courage and wisdom just weren't on duty to provide leadership.

[oowolf]

I first heard of Hubbert and his oil depletion theory (it wasn't called peak oil) in Barry Commoner's book 'The Poverty of Power" which came out in the late 70's.
However, it was a chance finding of a book by the somewhat forgotten critic of industrial civilization Ralph Borsodi, called 'Flight from the City' that sent me into the woods. THAT was in 1972.

[Terran]

I was 13 years old in 2000, and just entering the world of high school. By then most of the things I've learned was through self educating, school had never taught a fraction of the scientific knowledge, logics, reasons, critical thinking, etc...

Back then I did understand how fossil fuels was a non-renewable resource and it's a matter of time its going to run out. I wasn't too concered, I'd simply thought we have 40 years of oil left, and 250 years worth of coal. Even then I did have some understanding of issues relating to deforestation, overpopulation, air pollution, and the ozone hole. Even that I always had the impression that science and technology will someday solve the problems around the world. I was a science and technology optimist.

Then as time went on I came to the realization through observation that things are not really in place. I hear all about the cut spendings on our education system, then the test results of how the majority of my peers in high school are reading below grade level it's the same with math. My senses grew more cynical about human nature.

Then 2003, I discovered peak oil through LATOC, on accident. After extensive research, then combining the other issues facing society today, I drew my conclusion that the future isn't looking so bright afterall. It just sickens me to see my peers totally oblivious to the things going around them, let alone the majority of them being so information illiterate. Most of them are too busy partying, shopping, playing video games, TV, trying to be "cool." At that time I was sickened by the quality if the education I was taught. Most of the materials taught to me was review, and I simply had no interest in reviewing. Classrooms are mainly about control, and they discourage critical thinking, let alone questioning. It's even harder to face that fact that high school was so easy yet there's still large numbers of my peers who can't even graduate after flunking too many classes. After that experence I really look down on my peers. I really started to think that my generation is just a wasted generation. Now its the 21st century, and many of my peers who I've been in high school with is going to have to face what is in store. I pretty much lost faith in my generation.

I look at mainstream society, they follow the same figures as high school. I find it even more discouraging. Welcome to the 21st century, the information age, yet the paradox of this age is despite all this abundance of information, mainstream society is so information deprived. What a wonderful 21st century reality we live in?

Well here I am, 18 years old about to start the year 2006. I find myself entering the world of college, chasing false hopes. Many said the end of the 20th century was the digital age, the age of computers, and the 21st century is the age of bioenginerring. I say the 21st century is the age of scarity, and false hopes. I find myself majoring in biotechnogy hoping to get a science degree, but what am I thinking? chasing after the false illusion of status in intelligence.

Just speaking from experence, we're headed towards rough times, and my generation isn't ready for whats in store as we edge into a more precarious era of civilization. It's really hard on me, and for the people my age who have their eyes and ears wide open.

[MicroHydro]

Terran, even in times of population decline, some people thrive. Have you considered a career in geology or mining engineering? The world is going to have to devote increasing fractions of the global economy to resource extraction. There is a severe shortage of exploration geologists and mining engineers.

Biotechnology/Big Pharma has been booming for 40 years due to middle aged/old people with good health insurance. Peak middle class drug money is probably behind us. The only certain biotech growth fields are in antiaging treatments for the wealthy elite and bioweapons.

Yes, your friends might think you are evil if you end up working for BHP Billiton or Rio Tinto. F*** them. Your personal survival is your own business.
Cheers

[killJOY]

I've said this elsewhere, so quickly:

I'm 45, though I still [oops, what was I thinking?]

1974: I take "Earth Science" is high school. I want to be a geologist and get paid to climb volcanoes. We learn about global warming and finite resources, and the year 2000 is the cutoff date to do something about them.

1982: OK, so I major in geology for awhile, but keep failing math and chemistry. My farewell to geology is a course called "Geology and Human Affairs." It's really a course in energy. It's a standout course, because I leave thinking: holy shit. We have twenty years to get our act together.

1984: Graduate school in (yuck) English. I've deluded myself into thinking I can become a writer. I'm also trying to come out of the closet, which is the real reason I've gone away to major in English. My life is, quite simply, a mess.

1985: I move to a wooded state, and meet my current partner, a farmer. Twenty years of Reagan, Bush, Clinton and huge vehicles pass. We just shake our heads at the world. the "gay" culture seems just as frivolous as the rest.

2001: Several fanatics from the largest oil-bearing country in the world hijack several planes filled with oil products and crash them (with the tacit approval of the government of the largest oil-consuming country in the world) into several buildings. I think: this is the beginning of the end of the age of oil.

2003: Jay Hanson's dieoff.com crosses my screen. I stumble across an article written by a favorite professor of mine. Oh, yeah. Now I remember. And life has not been the same since.

I'm lucky enough to have a partner, family and friends who listen to me. I teach peak oil/ energy as a writing project to my students at the small U. where I work (so, in a sense, I'm back to my old geological interests). I've written several columns for the local newspaper and have been interviewed on the radio about peak oil. Nothing happened.

So now I'm just holed up, growing food, waiting for the plastic exploding inevitable.*




*Andy Warhol reference

[Laurasia]

In the seventies, I was raising my two children and was aware of the long lines at the gasoline stations. However, when cheap oil came back into our lives, I thought the political problems had been fixed and everything would be all right from then on. In the late eighties and the nineties I became quite environmentally aware, and it was from this perspective that I picked up a book by Thom Hartman called "the last hours of ancient sunlight'. This got my attention, but the date I remember 'internalizing' from that book was 2035 for the first signs of oil shocks. So I thought "phew thank goodness, when Al Gore becomes President he'll fix things and we'll get solar panels installed and drive neat Star Trek type cars and live to 150 years." (okay that's an exaggeration! but I was definitely an optimist looking forward to the turning of the Millennium and all the wonders that would follow.) But the Election came, and then the repudiation of the Kyoto Protocol, and then 911. In my disillusionment I had turned to the Internet to get my news (didn't quite trust the networks anymore), and one of the sites I used to read was 'Commondreams". It was there that I read an article that had a link to LATOC. I read that site from top to bottom, ordered the book, then read 'the party's over" and went into a complete tailspin. After about a month of surreality, I decided that I must stop mourning and start warning - which I did- family, both in US and in England, and people at work. Since then I'm trying to do the best I can to prepare and make up for the thirty odd years that I spent in a waking dream. It was a hard lesson to learn, but I'd rather know than still be sleepwalking.

regards,

L.

[MicroHydro]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Laurasia', 'A')fter about a month of surreality, I decided that I must stop mourning and start warning - which I did- family, both in US and in England, and people at work. Since then I'm trying to do the best I can to prepare and make up for the thirty odd years that I spent in a waking dream. It was a hard lesson to learn, but I'd rather know than still be sleepwalking.

regards,

L.

[RacerJace]

I had a kind dark humor moment today. As a kid I thought I would most likely die before I saw 30 years old. Well being a Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy fan I just realised the answer is 42. When I turn 42 it will be 2012 and we will have (pobably) just passed the peak of all liquid fossil fuels. Coincidently this is also when the Mayans predicted the end of time.

.