[crapattack]

See, guest, that was my thought too. I mean who needs all this 'end of life as we know it' stuff over the holidays? It should be a warm fuzzy time, I don't get to see them very often. They are getting older and I don't really know how they'll deal with this, it's so far out of their experience. Probably disbelief, but someone said not to be surprised if they take it ok since they grew up during the Great Depression. My PO plan involves having them live with us and as they are selling the house soon they should know what we are thinking. Also, I want Dad to start stocking up on things as they live on an island and if there is a sudden crash soon we might not be able to get to them. Perhaps I should just take the opportunity while they are here, but it is a very tricky thing. We really don't know what would be best.

[Ayoob]

How about Three Days of the Condor? It's a much better movie, and then they won't have to look at Kunstler's fat ass.

[Micki]

Better check the pulse carefully before jamming the whole PO doom scenario down their gobs.

I have over several months tried 'conditioning' my wife and still she comes up with ideas like 'lets spend your christmas bonus on a new car' type ideas. When I remind her of what our PM said on TV about end of chep oil, Goldman Sachs $105/bbl predictions etc she looks at me like I wa one of those "the end is near" type dudes or gives me the 'now now, it'll be alright. That is years away..." things. I don't even dare to bring up a lot of the interesting or scary PO stuff that I find.

Lucklily my wife lets me handle our investments, so I've been carefully stocking up on gold withotut really explaining why.

May I suggest that if/when you bring it up with your parents you make references to the 70's oil crisis and ask them how they would handle/cope something similar but worse. i.e. you can always mix in some terrorism, chinese demand etc in the talk to see how receptive they are before introducing the concept of PO.

When it comes to stocking up things, I don't think that is going to be an overnight problem. Better prepare the bigger things like preparing your home, learning more about farming etc.

Good luck and let us know how they took it once you told'em.

[AmericanEmpire]

Yes, make sure to explain to them that there is no hope of solving this crisis on a global scale and that 5 billion people are going to have to die off from disease, famine, and war starting in a couple of years.

That will make for a wonderful Christmas.

[crapattack]

AmericanEmpire, exactly - when I tell people about this stuff I feel like I just took their birthday cake and sat on it, than ran over to granma and crapped in her shoe, then ate her hat. No wonder I've gotten those 'did you take your lithium' type looks. How can I ruin their nice little retirement where everything was going so swimmingly with this this cat barf!. I'm a bad bad child. I shouldn't tell them. I wish I was a cornocopian then it would be no problem at all.

[Doly]

Is Christmas the only chance you have of communicating with them? Generally, I wouldn't say that Christmas is the moment to introduce peak oil to anybody, unless they belong to the "I hate Christmas" category. It's the moment when they're more likely to reject it straight away, if you ask me.

If you have a good chance to talk with them, even by phone, after Christmas, I think it would be a lot better. Actually, my method, which is not giving people a lecture and expecting them to "see the light" immediately afterwards, but giving them tidbits until it sinks in, requires a bit of time to work. Christmas holidays is too short a time.

[Barbara]

This is what I got when I tried to introduce my parents to peakoil.

They stopped me after the first two or three sentences, and said: "Wait! We are old, we are sick, we don't want to hear anything. We want to enjoy our last years without any worries. This is your business, you're young, take care of your family and leave us alone."

I couldn't blame them for this. Chances are, if they're over 70 like my parents, you'll get the same answer.

Good luck, anyway!

[dhfenton]

Maybe your parents are debating whether to tell junior about peak oil over Christmas. "He's so high strung you know"
lol


They're not stupid, send them the video after Christmas and let them make up their own minds.

[Jake_old]

Yep, wait till after the holiday. What if they've just spent a fortune on a load of (with the greatest respect) tacky crap.

My folks didn't accept it at all, but my dad obviously took it on board and seems fully aware and interested now, from his own knowledge and research I presume.

He knows a lot about Nuclear so actually managed to make me feel less doomy (for the short term at least).

[Wrencher]

Hi CA,
I think Miki's suggestion is a good one. You can sort of nibble around the edges of this and see how they take it. They went through the earlier oils shocks, so they know what that part of it is like, and what can happen to the economy. I gradually enlarged on these shared memories. We all agreed that these were just artifical shocks, and that in the end a lot of exploration and and drilling created a buyers market for quite a while. I then did a little bashing about the believability of corporate statistics, or those of any OPEC country since both have every incentive to report the greatest possible amount of reserves. I talked to them about how hard it really is to determine how much oil is recoverable in any formation, and then went back to the point that a company or country will probably both report the greatest reserves possible in order to make the most money. It is not a big step from this point to telling them about how production peaks on a bell shaped curve, and show them where on the curve discoverys peaked, where North America peaked, and where non-OPEC oil peaked. And tell them that these are the reasons that you are very concerned about what effects having the OPEC peak will have on the world, and your personal worlds esspecially. If they are half as smart as you are they will be picking up on the rest pretty quick. Also once people understand that you don't have to pump the last gallon out of the last formation to have the market change from a buyers market to a sellers market, the usually see the implcations. At least the start of them.

I haven't seen 'The End of Suburbia' so I can't really advise on that. I am guessing that it is pretty hard hitting, and if so you might want to wait until they have digested this. Speaking of digesting, it might not hurt to talk a little about NG, and how much fertilizer affects the availablity of our food.

I wish you the best of luck. I think my parents are a lot more ready to believe these hard truths than are my kids. Come to think about it, I can't remember the last time one of them offered 'A penny for your thougths' . Probably a lot more than they really want to hear.

Again, best of luck. I am sure that there will come a time when they want to know what is going on in your head and in your life and will be ready to listen.

If they live on an island they will already understand transportation issues and possibly the wisdom of having some food storage and general self sufficiency. Assuming this isn't Long Island.

[crapattack]

Thanks for all your feedback, the votes are still suggesting I show it to them, but going by the posts you've been leaving maybe I shouldn't.

To answer Doly, Christmas isn't the only time but it will be a while until I see them again and they are making plans meanwhile to sell the house. I have to tell them our solution soon and that would mean an trip to them just for that, and in telling them I would have to give them my reasons (PO).

I like Miki's suggestion too, I wish I had a bit more time, and of course Laughs_Last, suitably hilarious, but...no. I hate that movie and while it would be a fun sketch for some hypothetical parents you despise - get them so depressed on It's a Wonderful Life that telling them the End of the World is nigh doesn't seem so bad! I love my folks too much to double stomach punch them on Christmas - maybe just one stomach punch

They'll think some techno-fix will save them I'm sure. Nuclear or the 'experts will think of something'. This makes me feel even more depressed as I don't believe it myself even though I'd love it to be true. As long as it doesn't prevent them from doing something to cushion the fall, that'll be ok though. Then if the fall doesn't come, hey, all the more pickles for me!

[oowolf]

Depends on how "aware" you consider them to be. Most have to be pushed into consciousness of the supreme importance of respecting the entire Earth. You might try giving them a copy of Clive Ponting's "Green History of the World".
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/014017 ... e&n=283155
It's an excellent introduction to the dangers of destroying the environment. It goes way beyond PO. PO is not really the problem, but if you can't grasp the implications of PO, you're not likely to get SCARED enough to learn more.

[PenultimateManStanding]

End of Suburbia online:
Have you had a chance to see it yet? I understand Netflix has it, but Blockbuster online doesn't. I ran across it at sonofchaos.blogspot.com and here's the link: link
There's nothing much that's new to anyone who has been following the issue, but is interesting to watch the body-language of all the familiar names. For instance, Heinberg betrays a certain glee at one point where he is delivering a line about how bad this could all go down. Ruppert seems very sane, unlike the way some members here portray him.

[crapattack]

Thought I would give you all an update on what happened over Xmas with the folks.

We couldn't decide whether to show them End of Suburbia, so in the end we opted for introducing the topic in a very "off hand" way. I pulled my my new copy of "Power Down" by Richard Heinberg from under the tree that we had planted there hoping that this would start a discussion. Mom quickly grabbed the book and was scanning it with mild curiosity and a worried frown. I was prepping myself for a discussion when Dad suddenly piped up "Running out of Oil eh? Didn't you hear? They've just "proven" that it's an unlimited supply. We can't run out because it is just created in the ground. The whole thing of running out is just a scam by the oil companys". I was so shocked to hear the aboiotic oil argument coming out of his mouth I mumbled something like, "that's not true Dad", but let the whole thing drop. There was no use getting into an argument with him and trying to prove him wrong as he would just get defensive and dig in. But, we were quite surprised to say the least. He listens to a lot of 'talk radio' and must have picked up the concept from somewhere, so now our work is really cut-out for us because he's unlikely to change his mind no matter what 'evidence' I put in front of him. The only thing we can hope for is he'll hear some other opinions on the same shows to change his mind back to something more reasonable. Showing him the EofS would really be a mistake since he's attached himself to this idea.

Meanwhile, we did need to talk to them about our living arrangement plans. So we had a talk and told them we are thinking about moving back and want to get a house with some land and a great big garden (we didn't say what for), and want them to come and live with us after they sell the house. They were thrilled. I think it worked out for the better this way, and was more positive than scarring them half to death with the movie. Sometime we would like to show it to them, but maybe not until we're settled in the new situation and maybe by then they will have heard somethings on their own.

Anyone who has any advice on how to talk someone out of abiotic oil is welcome to pitch in, I'm a bit bemused he's cottoned on to this nutty idea.

[seldom_seen]

Haha, don't mean to laugh, but that's right out of a movie with Ben Stiller or something. Sorry to hear the old man has the abiotic bug, not sure how you're going to shake that.

You can always explain that the United States peaked in the early 1970s, which is a fact. If oil is abiotic, it surely isn't here in the states where we are hopelessly dependent on oil exporting countries.

[Guest]

Hi CA,
Sounds like you handled things about as well as they could be handled. I have heard that 'a man convienced against his will is of the same opinion still.'

About abiotic oil - if it is is being produced, the rate of accumulation is pretty slow compared to the rate that we are extracting it. My only observation. I would think that if it were being produced as fast as we are using it then the first twenty or fifty feet of the oceans would be covered with oil by now.

Best of luck. Going the direction that you are going in terms of a little land, having them live with you etc. will let you all draw together as a family. It might be a year or two, but pretty soon they will have a NOVA (or similar) exposee on Peak Oil, and probably interview Hubbert and Colins and others that have pretty unassailable credentials, and then a lot of people will start talking about it and it will become generally understood.

We gave our kids windup flashlights that also charge a Nokia cell phone, little sprouting chambers for making alfalfa sprouts (with some starter seeds) and three month dry storage food supplys. I was expecting a chorus of groans, but they all said they were glad to get them, and I think that they weren't just being polite. We all camp in the summer, so they all have some kind of camp stove, a propane lantern - more emergency stuff than long term stuff.

[aldente]

This is surprising PMS, the whole movie online available - just like that... Cool service by Google, my good old picture search engine as well.
Thanks for the post, it is an enrichment!

[engulfthemanatee]

Yeah that's awesome. I haven't seen it yet, and though it will take forever to load, I'm totally watching it. Thanks for the heads up!

[Dukat_Reloaded]

There is also some videos of mike rupurt there, he had an interesting speach.

[Aaron]

Our Peak Video link (see menu) is a Google Video search and has had EOS linked for weeks.