[BabyPeanut]

In a world with crippling natural gas production issues and soaring natural gas prices all we need is yet another consumer of natural gas. How much longer will industry lea-duh-ers continue to pursue this foolish fantasy?
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')url=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9427657/]Honda hopes to drive sales for a natural-gas car (link)[/url]
By Roland Jones
Business editor
MSNBC
Updated: 3:56 p.m. ET Sept. 23, 2005

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Earlier this year, the state of California agreed to subsidize a home refueling device, called Phill, which drivers of Honda’s Civic GX — a more expensive version of the standard Civic that runs on natural gas — use to fill up their fuel tanks at home.

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“The biggest problem here is range,” said Scott Miller, CEO of automotive research firm Synovate Motoresearch.

“Given the size of the tank in these cars you get enough compressed fuel to provide about 250 miles of travel, and that could make these cars very difficult for customers to go for,” he said.

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Honda started leasing its home-based natural gas refueling appliance, called Phill, to consumers in April. The appliance, which costs about $70 a month and is about half that price with the California subsidy, is about the size of a telephone box and can be mounted to an interior or exterior wall and is attached to a homeowner’s natural gas line and fuels up overnight.

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In 2006, an energy bill recently signed by President Bush will give tax breaks to owners of dedicated natural gas vehicles and home-fuelling appliances.

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[fossil_fuel]

the problem lies HERE:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BabyPeanut', 'I')

In 2006, an energy bill recently signed by President Bush will give tax breaks to owners of dedicated natural gas vehicles and home-fuelling appliances.

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[Starvid]

Only the US has a natural gas crisis. The rest of us are doing just fine, except on the natural gas climate issue of course.

[BabyPeanut]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Starvid', 'O')nly the US has a natural gas crisis. The rest of us are doing just fine, except on the natural gas climate issue of course.

[The_Toecutter]

Their lack of reality stems from their outright refusal to abandon the internal combustion engine in favor of an electric motor, UNLESS it has a maintenance-intensive fuel cell. Thing is, fuel cells, even if mass produced, would cost hundreds of thousands of dollars in an automotie application for at least the next decade. Can't have a simple battery, of no, that's too simple, too cheap, and would begin to eat into profits with dwindling numbers of people to make money off of in the servicing, maintenance, and repairs departments...

Can't wait for Honda and Toyota to follow the path of GM and see their bonds reduced to junk status. The old dinosaurs need to die for the leeches on society they are.

[BabyPeanut]

Here's the "Phill" natural gas house adaptor.
http://www.myphill.com/

[jaws]

The US isn't Honda's only market. Natural gas vehicles make a lot of sense in some places like the Middle East where they actually have a glut of natural gas (natural gas is a byproduct of their petroleum exporting).

[boilingleadbath]

I wonder why they are only getting 250 miles? I mean, you only have to compress it about 100 PSI until it liquifies, and liquified, it has roughly the same energy density...

[BabyPeanut]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jaws', 'T')he US isn't Honda's only market. Natural gas vehicles make a lot of sense in some places like the Middle East where they actually have a glut of natural gas (natural gas is a byproduct of their petroleum exporting).

[DigitalCubano]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BabyPeanut', 'H')ow much longer will industry lea-duh-ers continue to pursue this foolish fantasy?

[Heineken]

Honda doesn't lack reality, it lacks a grasp of reality.

[MicroHydro]

I agree that North America is a poor market for CNG vehicle expansion.

However, I also agree that many other markets (Norway, Russia, Iran) are, and will continue to be fine places to use CNG for the life of the vehicle. As the cost of making CNG vehicles is no more than petrol vehicles, Honda will do fine.

Holden is making a LPG Commodore, a good idea, as LPG is the least utilized liquid.

[lowem]

Right, America currently has a problem with natural gas. But the Arctic is melting, and via shortcut ocean routes opened up by that, Russia and Norway are keen to supply the Americans with gas from their fields. Natural gas also has a later peak date than so-called "conventional liquids".

Let's go along with the doomer line of reasoning for a while. Lemme see, we don't need more consumers of natural gas -> we don't need more consumers of that, and other resources as well. Humans are consumers of natural resources. In fact, not only do we not need more humans, we do not need any humans at all. Okay, so what's the activation code for SkyNet? Let's launch us some nukes

As for worrying about battery issues, why do we need cars in the first place? Oh wait, we need cars to go places. Why do we need to go places? To work, to get home, to shop, to visit other humans. But if there is no work, no homes, no shops and of course, no humans, there are no problems too, right?

Okay, so I probably make for a lousy doomer. Doomers should be more strident than that. Lemme put back on my moderate hat ...

[karina]

I heard that Toyota (in St. Petersburg) and Honda (in Moscow) were expanding their factories in Russia. I sense that they're diversifing their market as far as possible.

[dhfenton]

Honda is right on target wth this one. Emissions from a Natural gas powered vehicle are far cleaner than from a gasoline or diesel engine. Natural gas is also abundant in many parts of the world. If the vehicles in those parts of the world start running on NG, then the demand on oil should decrease somewhat. It makes sense to use natural gas close to where it is produced due to shipping problems over long distances. LNG tankers are expensive, and could prove to be dangerous in certain situations ( terrorism especially).

When someone really has a good idea it's very counter-productive to try to shoot them down. Because North America is not a great place of NG vehicles it doesn't mean they're not a good idea, and that global benefit will not result from them. Every car somewhere else that runs on something besides gasoline means that there's just a little more gas available.

[Doly]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dhfenton', 'N')atural gas is also abundant in many parts of the world. If the vehicles in those parts of the world start running on NG, then the demand on oil should decrease somewhat.

[dhfenton]

Peak gas is certainly not within the normal lifespan of an automobile in most parts of the world. It also, as you state, is farther off than peak oil globally. It is fully reasonable to produce more environmentally friendly vehicles for use in those parts of the world that have abundant NG. What are you saying? That we shouldn't bother to balance the energy load, and produce some less poluting vehicles at the same time? Reality is that people are going to drive vehicles. The more vehicles using environmentally friendly fuel the better.

[shakespear1]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')If the vehicles in those parts of the world start running on NG, then the demand on oil should decrease somewhat.

[emersonbiggins]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dhfenton', ' ') Reality is that people are going to drive vehicles.

[dhfenton]

No actually it probably won't. The poor will suffer in this country, and the rest will be inconvenienced. If you think they're going to stop driving because oil is $5, or $6 per gallon, I beg to differ. Peak Oil is not fallng of a cliff; it is a constant, but relatively moderate, increase in cost over a number of years. Those seeking revolution due to peak oil are probably going to be disappointed. The greatest danger of peak oil is over-reaction by our government, and global conflict resulting from it.