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The Consumerism Thread (merged)

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General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.
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Re: US consumers in deepening gloom

Unread postby DesertBear2 » Wed 26 Oct 2005, 02:57:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jmacdaddio', '
')Once the retailers digest the carnage, look for mass layoffs which will further erode the minimum wage-to-$12 per hour class. Their suppliers will all take a hit, further depleting the stores of shoppers. Oh wait, all the suppliers are in China and India .... never mind, how silly of me.


This xmas spirit stuff is rather annoying in a time when almost everything is made in Asia. This means that all the spending does nothing for US jobs or industry. It only enriches the mass retailers and a little bit for trucking operations. Nobody else on the North America continent gets any benefit from this orgy of gluttonous splurging.

We have been on a stingy xmas schedule for a long time. We are annoyed at the hokey music and manipulative holiday media displays. The religious aspects are not credible for us. And the mall-hysteria is just cheap and contrived. We give a few simple gifts- often of small useful things. And we make a determined effort to spend as little money as possible in the retail establishments.
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Re: US consumers in deepening gloom

Unread postby rogerhb » Wed 26 Oct 2005, 03:49:20

Bah, Humbug!


E. Scrooge. A Christmas Carol. Charles Dickens.
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers." - Henry Louis Mencken
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Re: US consumers in deepening gloom

Unread postby dbarberic » Wed 26 Oct 2005, 16:07:40

I think we should exchange solar panels or 1/10 golden eagles.

I would look forward to that.
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Re: US consumers in deepening gloom

Unread postby NeoPeasant » Thu 27 Oct 2005, 09:56:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dbarberic', 'I') think we should exchange solar panels or 1/10 golden eagles.

I would look forward to that.


I'm hoping for a big old lump of coal in my stocking. I may need it by Christmas, I have a natural gas furnace.
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Re: US consumers in deepening gloom

Unread postby strider3700 » Thu 27 Oct 2005, 15:48:48

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dbarberic', 'I') think we should exchange solar panels or 1/10 golden eagles.

I would look forward to that.


Man I want to come to your christmas.
shame on us, doomed from the start
god have mercy on our dirty little hearts
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Re: US consumers in deepening gloom

Unread postby gary_malcolm » Thu 27 Oct 2005, 16:12:09

Mmm... delicious Satan Claws.
Gary Malcolm

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There is no alternative source for our gluttony. Power down or die.
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Re: US consumers in deepening gloom

Unread postby elroy » Thu 27 Oct 2005, 18:09:51

Santa Claus is just a rip off of the dutch "Sinterklaas" anyway. :P
He was a bishop in Myra, present day Turkey. So back in the root, it's a catholic saint day.
I don't like the christmas season. First of all, I'm not religious, and second of all, the advertizing, the whole push to buy buy buy! And if you don't join in, you're some kinda weirdo. The whole season makes me retch.
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Re: US consumers in deepening gloom

Unread postby oilluber » Thu 27 Oct 2005, 22:25:16

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Eli', 'A')lthough I still like the Christmas feast with the fam.


Absolutely. That's the spirit of Christmas.

It's not buying pointless crap for people who don't want it.

"Why, dear, thats, er, just what I always wanted!"


The american economy depends dearly on frivalous
and wastefull gift giving in the spirit of the capitalist
version of Christmas.
So load up your credit cards and help give
the Rich Wall Street shareholders a fat
bonus in the spirit of christmas.
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Re: US consumers in deepening gloom

Unread postby mgibbons19 » Thu 27 Oct 2005, 23:47:20

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('o2ny', '
')My favorite is the end-of-christmas season news reports from the local mall showing stock footage of cash being exchanged and credit cards being swiped and the reporter interviewing shoppers and shop-keepers about how much money they're spending, and how much they're pulling in... we get this every year like clockwork and it underlines the point that christmas is ... a religious holiday ... for ... our economy....


Don't you think it's the most appropriate holiday we americans have?
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historic drop in consumer credit

Unread postby frankthetank » Wed 07 Dec 2005, 20:18:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')ASHINGTON (MarketWatch) -- Consumer credit posted a large, unexpected drop in October, falling by a record $7.2 billion, or a seasonally adjusted annual rate of 4%, according to the Federal Reserve.

The $7.2 billion decline was the largest monthly drop since the Fed began keeping records in 1943.


link

Reasons? Implications? Future trends?
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Re: historic drop in consumer credit

Unread postby bruin » Wed 07 Dec 2005, 20:33:13

My first thought would be that rising interest rates are causing many to consolidate their credit cards into home equity loans.

Also, many are getting hit with the increased monthly minimums as well. Even more incentive to consolidate your credit up.



BTW, many will rack up new debts on their now empty cards anyways. We may see a bounce back up in the next couple of months.
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Re: historic drop in consumer credit

Unread postby PWALPOCO » Wed 07 Dec 2005, 20:52:16

Looks like peoples ability to support their credit is drying up.

Most people ability to borrow is ironically balanced against their ability to pay, though irresponsible lenders dont even worry about that !

I wonder what could have been happening to have caused people to have borrowed less money ?! Higher interest rates ? Gasoline bills ? Home heating ? More money tied into mortgages instead ? (your property has gotten a bit pricey over there , as it has over here)

Providing people keep their jobs and keep the repayments flowing then there will probably be a tough spell for retailers for a while but hopefully things will settle down and it will all hold together.

If people start losing their jobs (because everyone stops spending) then start seeing the mortgage failures , reposessions etc , recession looms ! Money makes the world go round , you need people to stay in jobs and keep spending !

Paul
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Re: historic drop in consumer credit

Unread postby LadyRuby » Wed 07 Dec 2005, 22:27:42

Here's a sick quote from a guy from a Forbes magazine article:


http://www.forbes.com/home/feeds/ap/2005/12/07/ap2376594.html

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')mericans are shouldering record-high levels of consumer debt and personal savings rates have fallen to record lows, but analysts said consumer spending, which accounts for two-thirds of the total economy, should continue rising even if the pace slows a bit.

"I have full faith in the ability of the American consumer to keep spending," said David Wyss, chief economist at Standard & Poor's in New York.


You would think that not borrowing as much would be a good thing, but these MFers just want Americans to get more and more deeply in debt.
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Re: historic drop in consumer credit

Unread postby FoxV » Wed 07 Dec 2005, 23:15:02

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'R')evolving credit - generally credit cards -- fell by an annual rate of $1.6 billion, or 2.4%

could this be part of the new minimum payment rules. The official date for that is suppose to be January, but its been stated here that some companies have started already
Angry yet?
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Re: historic drop in consumer credit

Unread postby Euric » Wed 07 Dec 2005, 23:49:16

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('frankthetank', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')ASHINGTON (MarketWatch) -- Consumer credit posted a large, unexpected drop in October, falling by a record $7.2 billion, or a seasonally adjusted annual rate of 4%, according to the Federal Reserve.

The $7.2 billion decline was the largest monthly drop since the Fed began keeping records in 1943.


link

Reasons? Implications? Future trends?


I think fear! Knowing that with the change in bankruptcy laws means that the chances of over spending and using the bankruptcy system to be absolved from paying back what you owe has been shut down is forcing people to be more conservative when it comes to becoming over indebted.

Since bankruptcy now means being but on a plan of repayment and the possibility of losing ones home and middle class lifestyle is a big consideration.

The Feds know the petrodollar system is about to come to an end and it is consumer debt spending that is mostly responsible for foreign investors losing confidence in the American system that the government had no choice but to toughen the laws.

If it helps in reducing the debt and bringing the collapse of the petrodollar system to a soft landing then the bankruptcy reform has done its job.
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Re: historic drop in consumer credit

Unread postby DesertBear2 » Thu 08 Dec 2005, 04:27:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PWALPOCO', '
')Providing people keep their jobs and keep the repayments flowing then there will probably be a tough spell for retailers for a while but hopefully things will settle down and it will all hold together.

Paul


I am a bit skeptical about the vital role that "retailers" play in the US economy. The obsessive focus on retailer profits is not a good measure of economic health.

At one time, a strong show of retail sales meant that the nation's factories were humming along. This indicated a healthy demand situation and was a gauge of personal income gains. Today, however, most of the retailers are just shell outlets for Asian production- very little of the xmas circus comes from US workers or industries. And rising retailer profits is largely an indicator of the obscene indebtedness of the profligate consumer masses.
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Re: historic drop in consumer credit

Unread postby IslandCrow » Thu 08 Dec 2005, 04:30:28

The BBC News added this:$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')his represented a 4% drop, caused in part by a big drop in car loans.


Save money and don't buy a car :lol: The report also said that many economists were suprised by the drop... did they forget to read the reports at how badly GM and Ford are doing? :oops:
We should teach our children the 4-Rs: Reduce, Reuse, Recycle and Rejoice.
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Re: historic drop in consumer credit

Unread postby Euric » Thu 08 Dec 2005, 13:47:44

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('LadyRuby', 'H')ere's a sick quote from a guy from a Forbes magazine article:


http://www.forbes.com/home/feeds/ap/2005/12/07/ap2376594.html

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')mericans are shouldering record-high levels of consumer debt and personal savings rates have fallen to record lows, but analysts said consumer spending, which accounts for two-thirds of the total economy, should continue rising even if the pace slows a bit.

"I have full faith in the ability of the American consumer to keep spending," said David Wyss, chief economist at Standard & Poor's in New York.


You would think that not borrowing as much would be a good thing, but these MFers just want Americans to get more and more deeply in debt.


People like David Wyss don't care about America or it's people, just their own personal wealth. They don't live like the average middle class family. They live in upper class suburbs and live like princes and princesses. They don't care if your family is poor or in debt up to its eyeballs, just as long as they can continue to like the millionaires dream. They would sell their mother if it meant a few extra dollars in their portfolio.
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Re: historic drop in consumer credit

Unread postby kenohio » Thu 08 Dec 2005, 21:07:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('IslandCrow', 'T')he BBC News added this:$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')his represented a 4% drop, caused in part by a big drop in car loans.


Save money and don't buy a car :lol: The report also said that many economists were suprised by the drop... did they forget to read the reports at how badly GM and Ford are doing? :oops:


Plus remember that in the first two weeks of October nearly 500,000 Americans filed Bankruptcy in order to use the old law.

If those 500,000 people had $35,000 in debt wiped out that would be $1.75 billion in consumer debt gone.

And in all honesty I think the $35,000 in debt wiped out is conservative.
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Re: historic drop in consumer credit

Unread postby Dukat_Reloaded » Thu 08 Dec 2005, 21:19:03

What america needs to do is export more goods, then the economey would not be so reliant on domestic consumer spending. The american consumer is the american economy.
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