[KevO]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnemyCombatant', 'T')oo funny.
My husband yells at people who drives hummers. It's really embarrassing..

[KevO]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ALBY', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnemyCombatant', 'M')ost 'hippies' don't care for violence.

[medicvet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('elroy', 'M')aybe in rural areas of the USA a SUV has some merit to it, but over here there's absolutely no reason to own one. ... Yet the rich want to flaunt their wealth, they parade their status symbols up and down the expensive shopping streets so much they've been dubbed 'PC Hooft tractors'. (PC Hooft street is a very expensive shopping street in Amsterdam). Recently the government has been thinking about banning these SUVs or some other thing to do about it.

[SurvivalAcres]

My awareness of driving habits progressed in the last ten years or so. I've owned a lot of big rigs and a lot of SUV's. In my lousy defense, where I lived and what I did with them, they were necessary (snow, heavy work loads).

Now, I drive as little as I possibly can, as cheaply as I can, riding a bike often, or simply walking. I'm already thinking of going completely car-less because the actual cost of owning a vehicle (or better said, operating a vehicle, I never go into debt to buy a car) is prohibitive. A neighbor's son just applied for insurance - $1200 a year!! I pay less then half of that - but it's still way too much (a scam imo) and the other associated costs are as we all know, getting prohibitively expensive.

My goal is to be car-free. Just stop using it altogether. The only hard part for me will be hauling firewood (I use about ten cords a year). The solution to this is to have someone else haul the wood, paying them the going rate (ouch!) or doing it very slowly, by hand, carting it out of the woods myself (I already have the cart!).

[jmacdaddio]

Echoing someone else on this board in another forum, the problem isn't that I drive a Prius (just an example - I don't drive a Prius), while my office-mate drives a Hummer, and the lady in the townhouse next to me drives a BMW X5, while the new guy at work powers his TDI Passat wagon on biodiesel. It's not a case where I and the new guy at work should be praised while my office-mate and neighbor should be demonized for our choices.

The problem is that all four of us by and large have to drive our vehicles everywhere to get anything accomplished in the USA (outside of major metro areas with good public transit), whether it's getting to work, buying groceries, going to church, doing volunteer work, or attending an NRA rally.

So, before you slash the tires on a Hummer, consider that there are many positive ways to make your point: become a cycling activist, yell at your elected representatives, vote for 3rd party candidates at the local level, adjust your life so you're not driving as much. Violence may satisfy some primal urge to destroy something which you hold accountable for screwing up your life, but in the long run it won't work.

[ALBY]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jmacdaddio', 'V')iolence may satisfy some primal urge to destroy something which you hold accountable for screwing up your life, but in the long run it won't work.

[gary_malcolm]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jmacdaddio', 'S')o, before you slash the tires on a Hummer, consider that there are many positive ways to make your point: become a cycling activist, yell at your elected representatives, vote for 3rd party candidates at the local level, adjust your life so you're not driving as much.

[ALBY]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', 'M')ost of the oil we consume goes to personal vehicles, so our choices in vehicles make a big difference. However an argument could be made that this is all irrelevant since the end result would still be the same. With or without SUV's, peak oil is inevitable....it's just a matter of how fast do you want to reach the PO date.

[gary_malcolm]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ALBY', 'H')onestly and in a non inflammatory way, i'd like to seriously advance the theory that the boomer version of 'neoliberal' orthodoxy, like recycling programs and LEV's do not address issues likely to be central to our future society.

[ALBY]

thank you for putting an exclamation point on my comments gary.
as long as we all feel good, everything will be Ok. just have some cocoa and try not to think about it.
denial ? me ? hardly. i have taken personal responsibility for my future and the future of my family. and it wasn't the mental masturbation involved with buying an LEV so I would look good at the sierra club meeting.
you orthodoxy is a pair of blinders. from an emissions perspective, a diesel suburban puts your prius to shame when running B100. also, that prius has a 900 lb toxic slug called a battery. how much groundwater will that battery pollute in the future ?
IMHO, a prius is the perfect car for a limosuine liberal/armchair environmentalist. it is the ultimate expression of consumer based narcissism. a way for the weak minded to buy some salve for their guilty conscience.

[EnemyCombatant]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'w')ell. i have well over one hundred ticket stubs for greatful dead shows in my desk, and those were just the ones i saved. i saw plenty of hippie fights over that time. yes, even flower children have anger issues and behavior problems sometimes. I'll grant you, most people were very nice, but most people had some kind of support from the outside. hippies are not immune to human nature.

[gary_malcolm]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ALBY', 't')hank you for putting an exclamation point on my comments gary.
IMHO, a prius is the perfect car for a limosuine liberal/armchair environmentalist. it is the ultimate expression of consumer based narcissism. a way for the weak minded to buy some salve for their guilty conscience.

[EnemyCombatant]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KevO', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnemyCombatant', 'T')oo funny.
My husband yells at people who drives hummers. It's really embarrassing..

[kenohio]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Eli', 'W')al-mart will do well as a discount retailer or at least fare much better than the big fancy department stores those who normally would go to Macy's will instead be shopping at Wally World. Wal-mart aint dead yet.
But I agree with the forecast for a bad retail season.

[CARVER]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ALBY', 'S')o if you forget the 'green' prius orthodoxy, was my comment 'absoloutely false' or was it spot facking on ? Our society is organized around the prinicpal of cheap, personal transportation that is only possible with abundant, cheap fuel. The choice between a suburban and a prius is, frankly, like rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic.
Honestly and in a non inflammatory way, i'd like to seriously advance the theory that the boomer version of 'neoliberal' orthodoxy, like recycling programs and LEV's do not address issues likely to be central to our future society.

[EnemyCombatant]

Alby, we considered bying a prius. It's not because we are weak minded or we have a guilty consciouss. We wanted a fuel efficient vehicle.
I would never promote vandalizing or holding contempt for those that don't see things the same as myself. Each of us make choices. We made a choice in 2000 and 2004 for Bush. So we live and die with that choice.
Our collective conscious has made a decision to destroy ourselves. We should not be angry or vengeful about it. We have to just accept our decision like big boys and girls.
At the very least, none of us should be complaining. We are a free people. 300 million people can go to Washington DC tomorrow and end poverty. It's simple, but we didn't make that choice. We made the other choice.

[ALBY]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gary_malcolm', 'D')on't worry, this kind of finger pointing, "you are too!", idiocy is the par for the course these days. I think it passes for shoulder shrugging, only in a loud, FOX news dimwit kind of way.

[gary_malcolm]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ALBY', 't')hat is a great comment. it's been fun pointing fingers with you !
i plan to scream that at the 'anarchist' who let the air out of my tires as I'm choking him unconcious and grinding his face into the asphalt.

[ALBY]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('CARVER', 'R')earranging the deck chairs on the titanic does not buy you more time. Improving the fuel economy does.

[CARVER]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ALBY', 'A')n electric LEV is like smoking low tar cigarettes.