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The Ugliness Begins

Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of PEAK OIL

The Ugliness Begins

Postby duke3522 » Wed 28 Sep 2005, 17:43:57

The ugliness of the coming financial collapse may be rearing its head. Our county is about to close the county poor farm that has been in existence since the mid 1800’s. For over a century the old and the poor of this county have had a place to fall back on in their times of need. And my family knows of the place first hand from the days of the depression. :x :x

Now the county has decided to balance the budget on the backs of these poor folks. Many of whom will have no where to go. :(

The funny thing is that the county recently purchased 180 acres of land right next to the interstate and then turned around and gave the land to Wal-Mart for a distribution center. We have also given tax incentives and made major road improvements to a site for a Dollar General distribution center.

We have all this money for “Job Creation”, in other words corporate welfare, but we don’t have a problem kicking the old and the poor into the streets. Makes me wonder how soon those of us who are not much further up the will be wading in manure. :-x :-x

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Re: The Ugliness Begins

Postby Specop_007 » Wed 28 Sep 2005, 18:43:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('duke3522', 'T')he ugliness of the coming financial collapse may be rearing its head. Our county is about to close the county poor farm that has been in existence since the mid 1800’s. For over a century the old and the poor of this county have had a place to fall back on in their times of need. And my family knows of the place first hand from the days of the depression. :x :x

Now the county has decided to balance the budget on the backs of these poor folks. Many of whom will have no where to go. :(


How many are "repeat offenders" as it were?
Its one thing to need a helping hand every so often. Quite another to abuse it.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he funny thing is that the county recently purchased 180 acres of land right next to the interstate and then turned around and gave the land to Wal-Mart for a distribution center. We have also given tax incentives and made major road improvements to a site for a Dollar General distribution center.


Which the city will more then make up in tax revenue.
Granted, its still BS the city does that though.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')e have all this money for “Job Creation”, in other words corporate welfare, but we don’t have a problem kicking the old and the poor into the streets. Makes me wonder how soon those of us who are not much further up the will be wading in manure. :-x :-x

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Corporate welfare?
Corporations pay taxes, corporations employee people.
Maybe those homeless should go down to Wal Mart and look for a job......
Then they can make a effort to not be homeless. :-D
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Re: The Ugliness Begins

Postby seldom_seen » Wed 28 Sep 2005, 18:48:49

When Wal-Mart goes under we'll have lots of of big box stores to use as shelters.
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Re: The Ugliness Begins

Postby rogerhb » Wed 28 Sep 2005, 19:11:40

I'm astounded at a lot of American response to the word "welfare" as if it instantly turns people into Stalinists, but as you point out ignore the tax breaks and corporate welfare.
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Re: The Ugliness Begins

Postby duke3522 » Wed 28 Sep 2005, 19:22:13

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('duke3522', 'T')he ugliness of the coming financial collapse may be rearing its head. Our county is about to close the county poor farm that has been in existence since the mid 1800’s. For over a century the old and the poor of this county have had a place to fall back on in their times of need. And my family knows of the place first hand from the days of the depression. :x :x

Now the county has decided to balance the budget on the backs of these poor folks. Many of whom will have no where to go. :(


How many are "repeat offenders" as it were?
Its one thing to need a helping hand every so often. Quite another to abuse it.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he funny thing is that the county recently purchased 180 acres of land right next to the interstate and then turned around and gave the land to Wal-Mart for a distribution center. We have also given tax incentives and made major road improvements to a site for a Dollar General distribution center.


Which the city will more then make up in tax revenue.
Granted, its still BS the city does that though.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')e have all this money for “Job Creation”, in other words corporate welfare, but we don’t have a problem kicking the old and the poor into the streets. Makes me wonder how soon those of us who are not much further up the will be wading in manure. :-x :-x

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Corporate welfare?
Corporations pay taxes, corporations employee people.
Maybe those homeless should go down to Wal Mart and look for a job......
Then they can make a effort to not be homeless. :-D



Your usual kinder, gentler conservatism I see Specop. I thought a good conservative would think that this is exactly the kind of task local governments are suppose to fulfill. The folks in this home are the utter burn outs. Incapable of holding jobs in an area where there are plenty of able bodied folks that need jobs.

My point here is that the coming PO and economic crisis will probably be a bottom up disaster. We all seem to spend a lot of time looking for the big trigger that will reveal to everyone that the crisis is here. But the crisis is more likely to rise up from below like the flood waters in NO. Attacking the poorest and sickest among us long before most even realize anything is happening.

Before the stock market crash of 1929 a lot of folks were already hurting. US farmers had been in economic trouble since WWI, and unemployment was already on the rise. So things were already beginning to sink long before the stock market crash brought the looming economic crisis to everyone’s attention.

As the PO and financial crisis continues to eat away at the underpinnings of the US economy we can expect to see more and more of this type of behavior. People being thrown aside as local budgets become more and more strained by the high cost of energy.
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Re: The Ugliness Begins

Postby rogerhb » Wed 28 Sep 2005, 19:40:05

America land of the free, and home of the brave.

Just don't be old, poor or sick.

I thought the quote on the statue of liberty was

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'G')ive me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door
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Re: The Ugliness Begins

Postby duke3522 » Wed 28 Sep 2005, 19:51:25

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', 'A')merica land of the free, and home of the brave.

Just don't be old, poor or sick.

I thought the quote on the statue of liberty was

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'G')ive me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door



So we can make Soylent Green out of em!!! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
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Re: The Ugliness Begins

Postby mgibbons19 » Wed 28 Sep 2005, 19:56:24

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', 'A')merica land of the free, and home of the brave.

Just don't be old, poor or sick.

I thought the quote on the statue of liberty was

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'G')ive me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door


We don't actually take that seriously you know. It was a present from the French after all.
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Re: The Ugliness Begins

Postby Falconoffury » Wed 28 Sep 2005, 20:04:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')orporate welfare?
Corporations pay taxes, corporations employee people.


Yes, continuing the trend of widening the gap between the rich and the poor. Those who do the least work, make the most pay. Aside from working to live, the lower employees can only hope to one day be in a cushy position to be the exploiters rather than the exploitees. It's just a rat race to be a slave owner rather than a slave.

It worked while the economy was able to grow, as the positions opened up to accomodate more exploiters. Now that growth has slowed, we are seeing the exploiters taking steps to protect their positions over the slaves' growing anger.

The economy in the US is based on ignorance, entitlement, greed, and imbalance, and I for one will be happy to see it go.
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Re: The Ugliness Begins

Postby sol » Wed 28 Sep 2005, 20:07:27

Punctuated via natural disasters!!!




$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')ut the crisis is more likely to rise up from below like the flood waters in NO. Attacking the poorest and sickest among us long before most even realize anything is happening.



Or hypoxia/narcosis :cry:
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Re: The Ugliness Begins

Postby Tyler_JC » Wed 28 Sep 2005, 21:08:20

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', 'A')merica land of the free, and home of the brave.

Just don't be old, poor or sick.

I thought the quote on the statue of liberty was

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'G')ive me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door


1876.

We didn't have government welfare then. Or a New Deal.

We did have public work houses, child sweatshops, coal mines, and debtors prisons. Maybe that's the kind of society we want, one where the poor are forced to work or starve.
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Re: The Ugliness Begins

Postby rogerhb » Wed 28 Sep 2005, 21:19:37

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'M')aybe that's the kind of society we want, one where the poor are forced to work for a pittance or starve.


I added the words in bold.
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Re: The Ugliness Begins

Postby rogerhb » Wed 28 Sep 2005, 21:53:01

Just found this:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Timothy Garton Ash', 'N')ot the European kind, which looks to a state-guaranteed social standard for all citizens, but the American kind, which claims that anyone, coming from anywhere, has an equal chance to make their own way to the top.


What is missing is the rider, "... but very few will."

People can get to the top because there are people at the bottom.
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Re: The Ugliness Begins

Postby MicroHydro » Thu 29 Sep 2005, 01:38:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'M')aybe that's the kind of society we want, one where the poor are forced to work for a pittance or starve.


No doubt about it. That is exactly what a very large number of Americans want. What is unique and extraordinary about America, is that the majority of the people thinking this way are themselves only one misfortune away from destitution. That is the genius of the mass media corporate brainwashing that has been done over the past half century. Working poor Americans have been trained to hate and fear themselves, and support the interests of the ruling kleptocrats.
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Re: The Ugliness Begins

Postby Liamj » Thu 29 Sep 2005, 02:47:21

Well put microhydro, but will that trance state hold once the doses of sugar/caffiene/alcohol/nicotine/SSRI's/tranquilisers/cannabis/methamphet/coke/etc are cut? 8O

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edit:wrong thread!
Last edited by Liamj on Thu 29 Sep 2005, 07:23:31, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Ugliness Begins

Postby DesertBear2 » Thu 29 Sep 2005, 03:23:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MicroHydro', ' ')What is unique and extraordinary about America, is that the majority of the people thinking this way are themselves only one misfortune away from destitution. That is the genius of the mass media corporate brainwashing that has been done over the past half century.


The US public has been transformed into a dumbed-down herd of childish "consumers" who are unable to act in, or even understand, their own interests and are regularly fattened with flattery and manipulative marketing images. All the years of electronic fantasy have left the public unable to comprehend how real power is being exercised in the US.

Any news or information that upsets people is moderated or filtered out....can't disturb the herd with too much reality. Human milk cows respond to stress by making fewer retail purchases and we can't have that.
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Re: The Ugliness Begins

Postby GrizzAdams » Thu 29 Sep 2005, 04:06:30

I totally agree with DesertBear2, American schools and society have been turned into training grounds for a managed economy. With the process of extending "childishness" well into the adulthood, among other things.
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Re: The Ugliness Begins

Postby rogerhb » Thu 29 Sep 2005, 04:56:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GrizzAdams', 'I') totally agree with DesertBear2, American schools and society have been turned into training grounds for a managed economy. With the process of extending "childishness" well into the adulthood, among other things.


Neither the UK nor NZ has the practice of having school kids pledge allegience to their country each day.

Perhaps it's just assumed they would in a time of need.
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Re: The Ugliness Begins

Postby peaker_2005 » Thu 29 Sep 2005, 05:03:04

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GrizzAdams', 'I') totally agree with DesertBear2, American schools and society have been turned into training grounds for a managed economy. With the process of extending "childishness" well into the adulthood, among other things.


Neither the UK nor NZ has the practice of having school kids pledge allegience to their country each day.

Perhaps it's just assumed they would in a time of need.


We don't do it here in Australia either.

The National Anthem (which nobody knows or can be arsed learning) is the closest we've ever got (and then, we only use it in special assemblies, etc.)
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Re: The Ugliness Begins

Postby TWilliam » Thu 29 Sep 2005, 08:54:39

Wonder how many of us Americans even know that the author of the Pledge was a socialist, or about the physical attitude originally adopted during it's recitation:

Image
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