[sameu]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sameu', 'M')onte and everybody else who is so sure: isn't there any slight remote possibility that you overlooked something, or that there will take events place who you simply couldn't foresee, and that you would have to say, well be darned, who on earth could of guessed that? Maybe you have every possible variable checked and rechecked, but isn't it possible that there is something you simply can't factor in? That you'll have to say, yes but that was impossible for me to know at that time...

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sameu', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sameu', 'M')onte and everybody else who is so sure: isn't there any slight remote possibility that you overlooked something, or that there will take events place who you simply couldn't foresee, and that you would have to say, well be darned, who on earth could of guessed that? Maybe you have every possible variable checked and rechecked, but isn't it possible that there is something you simply can't factor in? That you'll have to say, yes but that was impossible for me to know at that time...

[sameu]

no you didn't

I was refering to the outcome of the whole planet postPO. I was asking you if there wasn't the slightest possibility that somewhere there is something you couldn't foresee etc, well just read my post I'd say

In stead you stated some stuff about Liebig's Law.
Which is corect btw, but these simple facts don't tell you anything at all about the consequences with 100% certainty

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sameu', 'n')o you didn't

I was refering to the outcome of the whole planet postPO. I was asking you if there wasn't the slightest possibility that somewhere there is something you couldn't foresee etc, well just read my post I'd say

In stead you stated some stuff about Liebig's Law.
Which is corect btw, but these simple facts don't tell you anything at all about the consequences with 100% certainty

[JudoCow09]

Rolling your eyes, I presume.

So. The world's knowledge estimately doubles every 8 years. Can you imagine what we could learn in eight years? Do you know what we learn in 4 years? In 4 years, the world's knowledge should increase by 50%. Take everything you know Monte and imagine knowing 50% more. Just saying.

By the way, if I can understand what he's saying, you surely can. No, I'm not so imcompetent that I can understand things you can't. Don't make the remark. He's telling you that you can't know the future. If someone knew the world was flat at the present time many years ago and was wrong, surely you could be wrong about facts today and even more likely tomorrow.

And I recall you saying you examine both sides. If I had a lawyer and I had clearly murdered someone, he would still fight for my side using facts. I bet I can find a scientist, biologist, or some other person who could argue the other side of this backing up all their information with facts. Sort of like your argument, only more positive.

And once again, I still feel that you're infering every species reacts to every problem the same way. Just because it would happen to monkeys doesn't mean humans will be the same way. We solve problems. It's what we do. Monkeys, well, they scratch and swing. Good for them. We scratch, and then we build, farm, and create. Show me a monkey that can make a candle, or farm. Show me just one.

[JudoCow09]

Monte, if I recall, you have a thread called "Liebig's Law: Why there will be a Die-off". And yet, I go through another thread to find that you posted this.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Montequest', 'O')bsessed with die-off? I care to differ. I only posted my Liebig's Law thread to clear up the confusion about the topic of die-off and what ecological laws and forces were at play. I didn't even make a prediction about die-off until recently, and it was mild by conservative standards.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JudoCow09', 'M')onte, if I recall, you have a thread called "Liebig's Law: Why there will be a Die-off". And yet, I go through another thread to find that you posted this.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Montequest', 'O')bsessed with die-off? I care to differ. I only posted my Liebig's Law thread to clear up the confusion about the topic of die-off and what ecological laws and forces were at play. I didn't even make a prediction about die-off until recently, and it was mild by conservative standards.

[aldente]

This thread does certainly not end up in the Hall of Flames as "Z" expected but rather indicates how the young lion JudoCow throws Monty off his throne.





See the fellow PeakOilers sitting around the camp fire applauding:



In all honor Monte is and will be the most profound "original" PeakOiler .

http://peakoil.com/fortopic12345.html

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('albente', 'T')his thread does certainly not end up in the Hall of Flames as "Z" expected but rather indicates how the young lion JudoCow throws Monty off his throne.

[aldente]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('albente', 'A')re you confused as well?

[sameu]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sameu', 'n')o you didn't

I was refering to the outcome of the whole planet postPO. I was asking you if there wasn't the slightest possibility that somewhere there is something you couldn't foresee etc, well just read my post I'd say

In stead you stated some stuff about Liebig's Law.
Which is corect btw, but these simple facts don't tell you anything at all about the consequences with 100% certainty

[backstop]

Sameu -

Your use of English is generally fine apart from a confusion you share with Judo cow and a few others on the site over the distinctions between

Speculation

Hypothesis

Prediction

Theory

Rather than defining those distinctions from my understanding of them, I'd suggest you look them up in a good science dictionary.

Having done so you'll be in a better position to discuss Leibigs Law and the ecological inevitability of a die-off in any species that goes into overshoot.

regards,

Backstop

[JudoCow09]

A dictionary won't change anything, Backstop. I looked up all those words and besides hypothesis, they all have multiple definitions and multiple meanings. I use my words according to an ordinary dictionary, so sorry if the definitions confuse you because they're not the scientific. Besides, it won't change the argument but rather delay the same one.

Monte: I think sameu and I are pretty much on the same page. First of all, I will give you the argument of a die-off if you can show me a controlled experiment where a being that could shape its enviroment to meet its needs was shown in overshoot and had a die-off. I'm just going to guess you can't. There may very well be a die-off, but you can't say there will be, because although none of you believe in technological solutions PO, there are many that can lessen the fall. Remeber how often knowledge doubles.

While we're at it, I also agree with sameu that consequences are unseeable. Human nature is not consistent person to person. Therefore, you can't know how the masses will react. Even if some fear and fret, there are leaders that can guide them. You should know all about that Monte. You know, the quotes.

In case you're confused before you read sameu's post, I'm going to infer his definition of speculation is a conclusion, opinion, or theory reached by conjecture. In case you don't know what theory or conjecture mean in this case, theory is an assumption based on limited information or knowledge, and conjecture is to infer from inconclusive evidence. Just to clarify.

And no, Monte still sits high up on his throne of his monarchy. The C4 I've placed seems to be having some technical problems... *whacks remote against wall*

[Jaymax]

A lesson I learnt long ago:

Never ever debate the definitions of english words with someone for who english is a second language...

My vocabulary is a lot bigger than most - but every time there's been confusion between me and a non-native speaker of english, they've been on the money and I've been the one with some subtle mis-understanding.

--J

[basil_hayden]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JudoCow09', 'F')irst of all, I will give you the argument of a die-off if you can show me a controlled experiment where a being that could shape its enviroment to meet its needs was shown in overshoot and had a die-off.

[JudoCow09]

Let me rephrase that. Show me a species that can live anywhere on the face of the planet, do more than one specific thing for a lifelong job, and can actually find better ways to do things over short periods of time. Show me a species like humans that have undergone this same process.

[basil_hayden]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JudoCow09', 'L')et me rephrase that. Show me a species that can live anywhere on the face of the planet, do more than one specific thing for a lifelong job, and can actually find better ways to do things over short periods of time. Show me a species like humans that have undergone this same process.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JudoCow09', 'F')irst of all, I will give you the argument of a die-off if you can show me a controlled experiment where a being that could shape its enviroment to meet its needs was shown in overshoot and had a die-off. I'm just going to guess you can't.

[Jaymax]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')re you implying that we'll "think" our way out of this mess called cheap oil?

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jaymax', 'Y')es, if we ever exceed the cheap, tap-able, energy carrying capability of the planet, there'll be a die-off, at least of western society, whether or not not of total human population. I just don't see the connection to peak oil. (That's an exaggeration, I see the possible connection, but it looks increasingly speculative and rather unlikely to me).