[Pops]

The Washington U. article mentions several reasons for not using regular army troops in civilian law enforcement situations one being that soldiers are not trained to de-escalate a situation as are police officers; they are trained to escalate.

Airlift, rescue, food/water/shelter, etc are fine in an emergency but I don’t think the Cav. and Exped forces do charity work. OTOH I doubt we’ll be hearing if there is any collateral damage in NO.

Just for grins I visited a few somewhat rightwing boards today expecting a big flap regarding the PCA since it is a staple for discussions there – or at least was during Clinton’s reign. Nope. Kill one of those black SOB’s for me was the general feeling – from the lack of response to this and my merged thread above I guess that is the general feeling here too.

Guess things would be different if they were talking about sending the Cav. up to a Ruby Ridge on those boards or to Mrs. Sheehan’s camp on this one.

Of course the main problem is, for example, half of Mississippi’s Guard is overseas. Wash. Post When you send the Mississippi National Guard to Iraq (outfitted by Mississippians I assume) you obviously leave no one to do their job – guard the nation and Mississippi in particular. And if the Post article is accurate and 3k of Louisiana’s guard is in Iraq, 3k in NO and 3k only on standby; it’s probably because they are standing by in the Houston Astrodome or in a Littlerock Motel 6.

Oh well, like I’ve said on every other hurricane thread (though I personally think the ramifications of this one are most important long term) just another reason to get out of the city and stay out.

[CarlinsDarlin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'K')ill one of those black SOB’s for me was the general feeling – from the lack of response to this and my merged thread above I guess that is the general feeling here too.

[seldom_seen]

I guess the only difference now between New Orleans and Iraq, is that Iraq gets billions upon billions of more dollars for reconstruction.

Wait though, Iraq is not part of the United States? There's something wrong with this picture.

[I_Like_Plants]

NO had always taken quite a bit of pride that it was not originally an American city, and there's been quite a bit of rhetoric over the years that they still don't consider themselves really part of the US. And how they have proven it.

[sklump]

Really, I doubt this can be a majority American opinion? Is this all it takes to crack the veneer of unity in the "United" States, do you just wait to crack open old grudges? Or will you stand together when times are hard?

I remember the Chicoutimi dam break and severe flood (1996ish), right after the '95 referendum, houses washed away and all (though nothing near the catastrophe of New Orleans - it's above sea level). The aid effort from ordinary Canadians coast to coast inundated the city. And Chicoutimi is the heart and soul of Separatist country. Never have they voted less than 63% to leave Confederation.

Just curious what "United" means then in this context? Or is it just a historical tag?

Calling Americans "Insurgents" to be shot at by other Americans is certainly heavy and sad. Times like this make paranoia a healthy state of mind. This is somewhere between Kafka, Orwell, and Hunter S. Thompson.

[Pops]

I think United comes from the time when 'We' meant WASP - males. The many posts here of late don’t really indicate union in the sense that all citizens of the US are united.

A disclaimer: I moved to an area 98% WASP by accident – but don’t mind.

[pilferage]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seldom_seen', 'I') guess the only difference now between New Orleans and Iraq, is that Iraq gets billions upon billions of more dollars for reconstruction.

[k_semler]

So the JTF is real? The PCA is going to be repealed? Retired millitary bases are used for temporary storm refugee quarters? Survivors segregated from society "for thier saftey" and forbidden to leave? What's next, forced relocation and forced labor? THIS HAS BEEN SEEN BEFORE!!!








SEIG HEIL MEIN FURHER!!

[k_semler]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sklump', '
')Just curious what "United" means then in this context? Or is it just a historical tag?

Calling Americans "Insurgents" to be shot at by other Americans is certainly heavy and sad. Times like this make paranoia a healthy state of mind. This is somewhere between Kafka, Orwell, and Hunter S. Thompson.

[evilmonkeyspanker]

I feel that you have all come to realize that americans don't actually have any rights... they have (priviledges)*spell

And with those special priviledges, there come certain constraints.

Of these constraints the priviledge to life, liberty and pursuit to happiness or the easy to get rid of.

[k_semler]

Yep. That actually is my sig on two other sites I frequent. This may be of interest to you also.

FMI 3-07.22

Get it before the Feds pull it offline and shut down the site. They have done shit like that in the past, and are almost certian to do it with this one.

[I_Like_Plants]

Spec, have I mentioned you rule?

[Pops]

I don’t know what the JTF, is but my whole point is that the PCA (according to the two sources I found above) state that the original intent of the law was to prevent local authorities from conscripting regular Army members to enforce civilian law but not the president or congress – the complete opposite from what most (who think about it at all) believe.

In that case the PCA has worked fine since I haven’t ever heard of a local Sheriff commandeering an Army platoon.

I don’t think the Fed. Gov’s hands should tired completely, but if anyone believes there is a law preventing them from ever deploying the military against civilians you are wrong – just read those two links.

[Doly]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'b')ut if anyone believes there is a law preventing them from ever deploying the military against civilians you are wrong.

[venky]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', 'N')o, Specop wont be an insurgent because Specop is damn well smart enough not to shoot at those people who might be trying to help him!
In other words, Specop aint some dumb guy who watches MTV and dreams of "Striking back at Da Man" and wont shoot at th epolice and military when their rendering aid and assistance in rescue operations!!

[medicvet]

I thought that k semlar was exaggerrating the end result consequences of this by a mile..but then I read this:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'G')uard officials are still working out details such as whether families will be housed together or have children placed in separate buildings.

[k_semler]

Oh fuck. I was right when I was being a smart ass! Forced relocation is here!! This was reported on ABC Radio News Hourly Update also.

Source: WorldNet Daily

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('World Net Daily', '[')b]Mayor orders forced removal of all in New Orleans
All officers, even military, authorized to compel evacuation of citizens

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: September 7, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern

Mayor Ray Nagin yesterday released a declaration of Emergency Order for the City of New Orleans. The declaration reads as follows.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com

Whereas, the presence of individuals not specifically engaged by the City, State or U.S. Government to assist in the remediation and recovery effort would distract, impede, or divert essential resources from the recover effort.

Now, therefore, I as the Mayor of the City of New Orleans, pursuant to the authority granted by Louisiana Revised Statutes 29:727 and: 730.2, do hereby promulgate and issue the following mandatory evacuation order, which shall supercede the Order issued by me on August 28, 2005, which shall remain in effect for thirty days from this date, unless extended by my order or earlier terminated by my order:


Civil District Court District Court for the Parish of Orleans, State of Louisiana City of New Orleans

Promulgation of Emergency Order

Whereas, Hurricane Katrina has caused catastrophic damage to the City of New Orleans, including, without limitation, several breaches in the levee system, loss of power and water service and the collapse and or loss of structural integrity of roadways, building and other structures;

Whereas, the above referenced damage necessitates an immediate and unimpeded recovery effort by the City, the State of Louisiana and the Untied States Government;

Effective immediately, any public safety officer within the boundaries of the Parish of Orleans, including, without limitation, members of the New Orleans, including, without limitation, members of the New Orleans Police Department, the New Orleans Fire Department, the National Guard and any branch of the U.S. Military, is hereby instructed and authorized to compel the evacuation of all persons from the City of New Orleans, regardless of whether such persons are on private property or do not desire to leave, unless such persons are determined by such public safety officers to be specifically engaged by the City, the State or the U. S. Government in providing assistance in the remediation and recovery effort.

Those persons who are currently located in Algiers on the West Bank side of Orleans Parish are hereby excepted from this Order.

The City Attorney is hereby directed to file this Order with the Clerk of Court.

Mayor C. Ray Nagin

[Zardoz]

This just stinks:

Marines Who Served Will Be Ordered Back

The resource wars are going to require a lot of boots on the ground, aren't they?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '.')..the latest sign that the American force is under strain and a signal that the military is having trouble persuading young veterans to return.

[rwwff]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', 'L')et's see if we can figure out why they're reluctant to return...