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THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Postby theluckycountry » Thu 05 Sep 2024, 12:36:13

Oh Adam. As for you

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We're 17 years past the peak now and the 3rd World is going hungry and dark. We'll be next, we're well on the way in fact.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Postby kublikhan » Thu 05 Sep 2024, 13:40:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', 's')ales globally (outside of communist China) The CCP, have been in aggregate decline for all of this year.
Incorrect. Sales globally(outside of China), are growing(See below).

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', 'T')hat's a big part of the reason why GM etc got into the game, and now they are regretting it. I have never said there will be be ZERO EV in the future, just that we have clearly passed PeakEV adoption, and obviously PeakEV manufacturers. It now remains to be seen what inner city demand will level off at.
And you continue to be wrong about that. How many times do I have to say it? Sales globally are growing, even excluding China.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', 'O')f course he's going to say that, what else can he say? Come on kub, why post these corporate statements as though they were facts of future reality. They are simply jawboning so their share price doesn't collapse in a rout.
It's not just jawboning. Factories are going up. New models are coming out. EV sales are growing. Do you have any idea how many new EV models are coming out this year and next year alone?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')anufacturers’ plans to introduce electric vehicles (EVs) continue unabated. In fact, dozens of pure electric models are set to debut by the end of 2024.

Afeela(Honda-Sony) Sedan, Audi A6 E-Tron, Audi Q6 E-Tron, BMW Vision Neue Klasse X, Cadillac Optiq, Chevrolet Equinox, Chevrolet Silverado EV, DeLorean Alpha5, Dodge Charger, GMC Sierra EV, Jeep Recon, Jeep Wagoneer S, Mini Cooper, Mini Countryman, Polestar 3, Polestar 4, Porsche Macan Electric, Ram 1500 REV, Rivian R2, Tesla Roadster, VinFast VF 6 and VF 7, VinFast VF 8 and VF 9, Volkswagen GTI, Volkswagen ID.7, Volkswagen ID.Buzz, Volvo EX30, Volvo EX90
Hot, New Electric Cars That Are Coming Soon

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', 'T')alk Talk Talk, Buy Ford, Buy Ford shares. If I had a dollar for every positive corporate statement that failed to deliver I'd be a multi-millionaire by now (I'm already a millionaire btw)
Again, it's not just talk. Look at what they are actually doing. Releasing new EV models, building new factories, increasing sales, etc.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', 'T')his is where we really disagree kub, you and Adam still believe the chatter of a decade ago, that the EV will supplant the Gas powered vehicle fleets of the World. I and the majority of people Don't!
Again you are wrong. I have long been skeptical that EVs will supplant ICE, now and a decade ago. Go back and look at my posts a decade ago and you will see I was skeptical that we were all going to be driving EV and ICE was going the way of the dodo. That doesn't mean I buy into the kind of crap you are peddling that EV sales have peaked when they have clearly not. You think EVs are crap? Fine you are entitled to your opinion. But stop lying and saying sales have peaked when they have clearly not. Hell, you can even use mousepad's argument and say "Of course sales haven't peaked bajillions of tax payer dollars are propping up sales." That's a reasonable argument too. But all of this BS about sales having peaked? It's just not true.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', 'T')hey are 50% of sales kub, 50%. One country on the Planet! One economy being run like the USA was during WWII, a command and control economy. You take China out of the equation (One Country) and sales worldwide would be declining at a frightening rate.
Again, more BS. First of all, China is not a command economy. China ditched it's command economy in 1978 and has long ago migrated to a market economy:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')hina maintained a command economy until 1978 when it began its transition to a mixed economy that blends communist and capitalist elements. Its current system has been described as a socialist market economy.
Command Economy: Definition, How It Works, and Characteristics

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')rior to the initiation of economic reforms and trade liberalization nearly 40 years ago, China maintained policies that kept the economy very poor, stagnant, centrally controlled, vastly inefficient, and relatively isolated from the global economy. Since opening up to foreign trade and investment and implementing free-market reforms in 1979, China has been among the world’s fastest-growing economies, with real annual gross domestic product (GDP) growth averaging 9.5% through 2018.

China's Economy Prior to Reforms
Prior to 1979, China, under the leadership of Chairman Mao Zedong, maintained a centrally planned, or command, economy. A large share of the country's economic output was directed and controlled by the state, which set production goals, controlled prices, and allocated resources throughout most of the economy.

In 1978, (shortly after the death of Chairman Mao in 1976), the Chinese government decided to break with its Soviet-style economic policies by gradually reforming the economy according to free market principles and opening up trade and investment with the West, in the hope that this would significantly increase economic growth and raise living standards. As Chinese leader Deng Xiaoping, the architect of China's economic reforms, put it: "Black cat, white cat, what does it matter what color the cat is as long as it catches mice?" Beginning in 1979, China launched several economic reforms. China’s Economic Rise: History, Trends, Challenges, and Implications for the United States

Second of all, EV sales outside of China are growing, not declining at a frightening rate. Let's look at the data. 2024 is not over yet so let's look at Q1 and compare it to prior years:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_code('', '
Year Europe EV sales Q1 US EV sales Q1 Rest of World(excluding China) EV sales Q1
2021 500,000 100,000 100,000
2022 600,000 200,000 100,000
2023 700,000 300,000 200,000
2024 800,000 400,000 300,000') IEA: Quarterly electric car sales by region, 2021-2024

As you can see, global EV sales are increasing, even if we exclude China sales. So stop with this BS that sales have peaked and are declining at a frightening rate.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Postby AdamB » Thu 05 Sep 2024, 16:10:06

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', '[')b]Oh Adam. As for you

Yes, I know. Those lacking imagination, and in your case also education, are quite repetitive (and unoriginal) in what they think are insults.

Any reason why you never talk about things going on in your homeland? Not your local neo-Nazi group I mean, but the jealousy thing trying to bring down those countries and people so much more capable, powerful, rich, etc etc, but Australia is a pretty interesting place, its history and geography etc etc. Folks, including myself, like pix of it, and as natural scenery is something even neo-Nazis appreciate, can you send along more of that rather than your thoughts on..you know...topics that require it?
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Postby theluckycountry » Thu 05 Sep 2024, 17:01:44

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kublikhan', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', 's')ales globally (outside of communist China) The CCP, have been in aggregate decline for all of this year.
Incorrect. Sales globally(outside of China), are growing(See below).


$this->bbcode_second_pass_code('', '
Year Europe EV sales Q1 US EV sales Q1 Rest of World(excluding China) EV sales Q1
2021 500,000 100,000 100,000
2022 600,000 200,000 100,000
2023 700,000 300,000 200,000
2024 800,000 400,000 300,000') IEA: Quarterly electric car sales by region, 2021-2024

As you can see, global EV sales are increasing,


You're a classic cub :lol: A Classic!
You compare the 1st quarter of 2024 :lol: With the first quarter 2023. It's really pointless reading anymore, which I didn't, because you cherry pick, you hunt Hi and low for any comparison that helps you get out of that hole you have dug for yourself.

2024 Q2
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]France, Germany, Italy, Spain, and UK
Growth of electrified vehicles year-on-year in the top five European markets outperformed the total vehicle market in the second quarter of 2024. EV sales increased by 11% from the same period last year, whereas ICE sales fell by 2%. As a result, total electric vehicle market share has crept above the 50% mark again, after falling short by 6% in the first quarter of 2024.

This growth can be attributed to sales of full and mild hybrids, which grew by 21% in Q2 2024 vs. Q2 2023. Hybrid sales growth was particularly apparent in France (40%) and Spain (27%). The hybrid market share in the EU top 5 now stands at 32%, meaning that almost one in three vehicles now sold in the region are hybrids.
https://www.strategyand.pwc.com/de/en/i ... 24-q2.html

You see, EV sales down in second quarter, vastly overshadowed by Gasoline powered Hybrids. People are happy to go Green kub, as long as they can run their heaters in Winter and not need to stop for a recharge ever two hours. In a few years they'll probably realize they don't need the electric component anyway, that was just a fad, and go back to ICE.
We're 17 years past the peak now and the 3rd World is going hungry and dark. We'll be next, we're well on the way in fact.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Postby theluckycountry » Thu 05 Sep 2024, 17:17:50

Volkswagen Walks Back EV-or-Bust Strategy
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')Volkswagen AG’s all-in on electric vehicles plan is no more.
The namesake VW brand, which pitched its ID family of electric cars as central to its future, admitted last week it will need more plug-in hybrids as EV sales decelerate.
https://www.nada.org/nada/nada-headline ... -bloomberg

That was in May, the second Quarter. 2024

This is Today, straight out of Gemany DW: 9th Sep 2024

VW's warning on plant closures in Germany causes outcry

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'E')urope's biggest carmaker is intensifying cost-cutting measures that no longer rule out plant closures or layoffs... To make matters even worse for the 680,000 VW employees worldwide, the management also feels forced to end its job security program which has been in place since 1994 and prevents job cuts until 2029. In a letter to employees on Monday

... VW brand chief Thomas Schäfer described the situation as "extremely tense" and beyond the scope of "simple cost-cutting measures." VW Group CEO Oliver Blume added that the European automotive market is in a "highly challenging and serious situation,"
https://www.dw.com/en/vws-warning-on-pl ... a-70123969

You see kub? This isn't like your Bullshit corporate projections for 202x, this is on the ground reality. And you can bet they aren't telling the whole story either, they will trying to take the sting out of it. It's clearly a disaster happening for that company. Go EV, Go Broke.

The writing was on the wall nearly a year ago but what could they do? They were trapped by their investment in the sector and by BS government policy. They will recover, but after they flush out all the losing EV side of the company.

Nov 16 2023
Volkswagen’s EV woes worsen with another shift cut over slowing demand

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')n what’s beginning to sound like a broken record, Volkswagen is cutting EV production over slowing demand for its electric models. Volkswagen’s EV woes worsen as the automaker struggles to keep up with Tesla.

Although Volkswagen delivered 531,500 electric vehicles through September, up 45% from last year, the number fails to show the current situation. Arno Antilitz, Volkswagen’s CFO, explained on a media call last month that EV orders are down to 150,000 in Europe. That’s 50% lower than the 300,000 from last year.

https://electrek.co/2023/11/16/volkswag ... ng-demand/
We're 17 years past the peak now and the 3rd World is going hungry and dark. We'll be next, we're well on the way in fact.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Postby theluckycountry » Thu 05 Sep 2024, 17:24:20

Enough of this EV Bullshit for now. You boys have a jerk circle for a while, I'll be back when the next big downside story breaks.

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We're 17 years past the peak now and the 3rd World is going hungry and dark. We'll be next, we're well on the way in fact.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Postby kublikhan » Thu 05 Sep 2024, 18:32:13

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', 'Y')ou're a classic cub :lol: A Classic!
You compare the 1st quarter of 2024 :lol: With the first quarter 2023. It's really pointless reading anymore, which I didn't, because you cherry pick, you hunt Hi and low for any comparison that helps you get out of that hole you have dug for yourself.
Actually, Q1 is the most recent data the IEA published. However I did post H1 data 2 days ago, which included both q1 and q2. I'll post it again since your memory apparently doesn't extend that far back.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', 'Y')ou see, EV sales down in second quarter, vastly overshadowed by Gasoline powered Hybrids.
I see the problem. You have a reading comprehension problem. That quote did not say "BEV sales down in second quarter". It said most of the grow was in hybrids. Nowhere in that quote did it say BEV shrank. If you look at the actual data, BEV sales are up:

Image
Global EV Sales Report H1 2024 by EV Universe

And just to make sure the author was not full of it, I doubled checked the source data and verified the author's data was correct. Sorry Lucky, you are just flat out wrong here. Oh and BTW, since you brought up cherry picking, nice job cherry picking the one region of the world that had the lowest growth. US? You ignore it. China? You ignore it. Rest of the world? You ignore it. Well sorry to burst your bubble, but even in your cherry picked region where BEV sales growth was the lowest in the world, BEV sales are still up over last year.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', 'Y')ou see kub? This isn't like your Bullshit corporate projections for 202x, this is on the ground reality. And you can bet they aren't telling the whole story either, they will trying to take the sting out of it. It's clearly a disaster happening for that company. Go EV, Go Broke.
Your memory problem is getting worse. Those 202x quotes I posted were all less than a month old. Here are the dates again since you memory is so bad:
VW quote: August 23, 2024
Ford quote: August 21, 2024
Volvo quote: Sep 4, 2024

Oh and nice job cherry picking one factory closure. Meanwhile the big picture looks very different:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')ept. 5, 2024 - Here is one thing to keep in mind as you think about the latest news on automakers’ plans: “There’s still a consensus among carmakers that everything will go electric,” The Times’s Jack Ewing, who has covered the auto industry for 40 years, told me. “It’s just a question of how long it’s going to take.”

A slower, but steady pace
The experts I talked to were fairly optimistic about the future of the E.V. market, despite the negative headlines. Sales may not be growing as fast as they were last year. But they are still growing. And investments in new factories that produce electric cars are growing, too, as well as the jobs they generate.

According to a report by the Environmental Defense Fund, an advocacy group, over the past nine years, manufacturers have announced $199 billion in investments that come with over 200,000 new jobs. The vast majority of those investments were announced in the last two or three years. By 2027, the manufacturing facilities in the works now will be able to produce 5.8 million new electric cars a year, accounting for over a third of America’s annual demand, the report found.

Peter Zalzal, a lawyer who works in transportation at E.D.F., said the investments his team has been tracking show no sign of waning. This means that the data still show automakers are confident the future is electric. “As costs continue to decline, as we see more of these manufacturing facilities come online, the picture is just going to improve,” he said.
The Electric Vehicle Future Is Coming. Just a Little More Slowly

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')ugust 12, 2024 - The United States is the top nation for attracting investments in electric vehicle (EV) and battery manufacturing, surpassing announced investments in China and other countries globally. Companies have announced $312 billion in planned investments in the United States, up from about $75 billion when President Joe Biden took office in 2021.

Of the $312 billion of planned investments targeted for the United States, $223 billion has been allocated to specific facilities or initiatives; this is up nearly $66 billion since January 2023, demonstrating that companies are turning their earlier commitments into on-the-ground investments. More than half of that investment—$133 billion—is slated for battery manufacturing and recycling; 32 percent, or about $70 billion, is allocated for EV manufacturing; and $21 billion is directed toward facilities producing components further down the supply chain, such as EV parts and critical minerals.

After years in which China dominated EV manufacturing, the latest data is showing a dramatic turnabout: The United States took the lead over China to be the top destination for these investments in 2022, just as the Inflation Reduction Act (IRA) became law.

In fact, the United States is now attracting nearly a quarter of all announced global EV investments. Prior research by Atlas and BlueGreen Alliance showed that there are now 484 active or planned facilities across 40 states with Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, North Carolina, and Tennessee being the top states benefiting from EV investment.

Almost overnight, the United States is poised to become a global leader in innovative, cleaner, and cost-effective electric vehicle manufacturing. Record investments in a cleaner future can help boost the economy, create jobs in communities across the country, and provide a cleaner and more affordable way of moving people and goods. U.S. Is Now a Global Leader in Attracting EV Investments

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', 'E')nough of this EV Bullshit for now. You boys have a jerk circle for a while, I'll be back when the next big downside story breaks.Yes run away after your BS has been exposed. I expect your next post will be another cherry picked post. Or should I say another turd mined post since it is not cherries you are posting.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Postby mousepad » Thu 05 Sep 2024, 20:56:36

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kublikhan', '
')And just to make sure the author was not full of it, I doubled checked the source data and verified the author's data was correct.

Damn. Do you see them numbers? Some rich bastards out there, that's for sure. I'm in the market for a new car, but all I can afford is the cheapest model available, a nissan versa. I pity me.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Postby AdamB » Thu 05 Sep 2024, 22:25:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', 'E')nough of this EV Bullshit for now.

The only one seemingly keeping this topic alive is YOU. And then Kub makes you look like a mindless hater (no, not your neo-Nazi leanings, but your inability to think your way out of an advocacy position), and you whine.

It was an easy question, which any high school graduate could answer....but not you apparently. Why waste all this time on something you really don't like? Don't like EVs, want to bash Tesla, fine, we get the point. But then you make stuff up from that starting point, and those of us with experience with EVs and Kub with actual data notice (and refute your advocacy slanted internet picking of information), and you just can't think your way around anything other than your hate for them.

What's your beef with EVs? Not someone else's beef, not all the whining you look up from others on the internet, what about EVs bothers a neo-Nazi to the point where they just...can't...shut...up...about it?
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Postby AdamB » Thu 05 Sep 2024, 22:33:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mousepad', ' ')I'm in the market for a new car, but all I can afford is the cheapest model available, a nissan versa. I pity me.

I feel your pain. I haven't bought a new car since 2015, and when I went to even look at new prices about 6 months ago I was like...WHAT!!! The cheapest things on the road new (<$30G's) were like the cheapest Nissans, or Kia or Hyundai's. Whatever happened to cheap Toyota Corollas and Camrys? I've bought Ford Fiesta's, Focuses and paid less than $15G's new for the first 2, bought a new Altima once for <$17G's, all reasonable travel around cars. Nowadays nothing.

After I was finished looking I told the wife "screw it...I'm driving what I got until I retire and will worry about it then".

But I did get a new seat and windshield installed on the motorcycle this afternoon...to heck with the cages.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Postby Shaved Monkey » Sun 08 Sep 2024, 19:23:15

‘Batteries on wheels’: Imagine earning $3000 a year from your electric car
“You could power a single household for about four days on an electric vehicle battery,”
In Australia
After a slow start, electric vehicle sales doubled last year to nearly one in 10 new vehicles nationally.

By 2030, some think they could account for roughly half of all new sales, meaning more than 2 million battery-powered vehicles may be about to hit the roads.

In particular, there are the potential issues if and when millions of electric vehicle (EV) owners arrive home about 5pm or 6pm daily, start plugging in en masse to recharge and guzzle so much power at once that they overwhelm the grid.

Around the world, retailers are advancing the rollout of smart-charging software that will prevent a car from powering up during the high-price evening peak, and instead shift its charging to the cheapest times.
These include the middle of the night when demand is lowest, or the middle of the day when there is more solar in the grid.

Some in the industry, looking even further ahead, are in early trials of “vehicle-to-grid” technology – connecting an EV to a bidirectional charger so its battery can feed back into the grid at peak times.

“We view all of these electric vehicles as massive batteries on wheels,” says Le.

“Being able to draw the power from these massive batteries and use that power to support the energy system would be the jackpot for energy retailers and other participants in the market.”

“You could power a single household for about four days on an electric vehicle battery,”

There have been promising signs from the very small number of “early adopters” who are equipped for two-way charging and are signed up to Amber, which enables customers to buy and sell power at wholesale prices.

“We had one customer a couple of months ago earn $300 [in] a day from their Nissan Leaf,” Thompson says. “I’m yet to hear of anyone else earning more than that from their car in a single day.”

https://www.theage.com.au/business/cons ... 5k8em.html
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Postby theluckycountry » Sun 08 Sep 2024, 20:20:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shaved Monkey', '
')After a slow start, electric vehicle sales doubled last year to nearly one in 10 new vehicles nationally.


September 4, 2024
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'E')lectric car sales in Australia have dipped for the second month in a row during August – despite multiple existing EV makers cutting prices across their lineup and introducing multiple new models.

The latest data from the Federal Chamber of Automotive Industries (FCAI) and Electric Vehicle Council (EVC) shows that 5,892 battery electric vehicles were sold in Australia in August – a share of just 5.9 per cent of the overall new car market. The data is now split into two sources following the breakaway of Tesla and Polestar... Both brands, however, are sharply down from a year ago, with Model Y sales nearly halving from 2,314 in August last year ...
https://thedriven.io/2024/09/04/tesla-a ... ew-models/

So Australia has clearly past it's own PeakEV point, not surprising we were late to the party, after Norway we're one of the richest nations on earth.
Thanks for posting SM.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '6') August 2024: The proportion of petrol and diesel small cars (not utes or SUV's) on Australian roads is decreasing as the hyper-competitive EV and hybrid markets gain bigger footholds. The latest quarterly Australian Automobiles Association data shows sales of new internal combustion engine light cars slipped from 78 per cent to 75 per cent of Australian sales in the second quarter of 2024.

Hybrid sales spiked by one-third - from 35,003 to 46,727 - and hybrid market share rose from 11.9 per cent to 14.9 per cent.
https://au.news.yahoo.com/petrol-diesel ... 03262.html

Utes and SUV's are a huge part of the Australian landscape but these are excluded from the data in the story above.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')RMA -- EV sales in March kept abreast with February, with one in ten vehicles sold powered by battery alone. Also, for the first quarter of 2024, almost one in five passenger cars sold were electric, constituting 18.9% of total sales. That's significant but it's also important to note that passenger cars represent only 15 per cent of the broader market.

Within the SUV segment, which makes up 60% of the broader market, electric SUVs accounted for 14.4% of total SUV sales. In stark contrast, only 0.1 per cent of utes were electric.
https://www.mynrma.com.au/electric-vehi ... march-2024

Statistics, you have to be careful. The NRMA is an automotive body and includes the data the fanboi media omit
We're 17 years past the peak now and the 3rd World is going hungry and dark. We'll be next, we're well on the way in fact.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Postby theluckycountry » Sun 08 Sep 2024, 20:29:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he Toyota RAV4 is selling like hotcakes, setting a sixth consecutive monthly sales record, and it could overtake its HiLux ute stablemate and the Ford Ranger to be Australia’s best-selling vehicle this year...

...Of those 6712 deliveries in August, 6342 were RAV4 hybrids, enough to push electrified examples of the popular SUV to a record on their own.
https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/t ... er-in-2024

My SUV has a battery too, it's electrified! But like those 6342 RAV4's it really runs on petrol. My Brother has a Hybrid, it runs on the electric motor up till 60km/h then switches to gasoline, to run and "recharge the battery." It's a shell game, a marketing ploy basically.
We're 17 years past the peak now and the 3rd World is going hungry and dark. We'll be next, we're well on the way in fact.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Postby AdamB » Sun 08 Sep 2024, 20:31:16

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', '
')So Australia has clearly past it's own PeakEV point, not surprising we were late to the party, after Norway we're one of the richest nations on earth.


List of richest nations on earth. Australia doesn't make the top 10. Or beat out Iceland.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', '
')Statistics, you have to be careful. The NRMA is an automotive body and includes the data the fanboi media omit


Indeed. Because neo-Nazi fanbois can't even be bothered to know facts, let alone statistics.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Postby theluckycountry » Mon 09 Sep 2024, 01:24:39

To understand the Australian Vehicle market and why we have rejected the EV you first have to understand the mindset down here. We are not idiots! Sure some are gullible, old women for example, young men with funny hairbuns etc. But the average aussie can see through scams easily enough.

The reason the EV was rejected is that it is not a solution to climate or anything. It's an expensive car made wholly out of fossil fuels and powered entirely off fossil fuels. Whether powered directly from a coal station or indirectly from rebuildables made from coal in China. It's an Eco-lie basically and we're not buying it.

All the hybrids that are big sellers here are the non-plugin variants. People are happy to have an economical petrol engine in their cars as long as it can go fast when needed and the hybrid delivers that. One day they may be outclassed by the new generation of super efficient engines being developed in Japan but either way it's just a more efficient way of driving on Gasoline. The payback time for an EV, the touted "break-even point" where the enormous volumes of fossil fuels that go into it's manufacture are balanced by the fossil fuel it doesn't burn in operation is just another Lie. Like the Range Lie, the, battery longevity Lie.

The fact that they are recharged on fossil fuels means that they will never pay back and in 8 years are a throwaway. That being the very reason why they are rejected by the Ute owning segment of the Australian driving public. Ute owners here enjoy happy charge-free motoring and good resale values. No one in his right mind would pay $60 or $80,000 dollars for a ute that's resale value is essentially zero in 8 years. What kind of an idiot would do that? A city dweller will buy a hybrid, because it sort of makes sense, but "Resale" value is a big part of any vehicle purchase decision so we have to wait and see how they react to battery degradation in the resale market in a couple of years. If resale values a appreciably less than conventional cars that will effect the market for new sales in half a decade or so.

EV's are city toys for profligate Westerner's who are a prey to marketing scams. In total they cost more than full gasoline powered cars over their lifetimes and do 'Zero' to help the environment, which is how they were marketed in the first place, to Green Up. Being against the EV is like being against the V8 engine. They are both a waste of the planet's resources and should have been outlawed but corporate and Wall Street money swindlers peddling the vehicles rule the roost, for now.

Who else is rich on the planet?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'J')an 2024-- Electric car sales continue to rise in Switzerland. In 2023, the percentage of total new cars registered that were electric rose to 20.9%,

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')ug 2024-- Electric cars stall in Switzerland
Electrically powered cars offer consumers numerous advantages. Not only are they significantly quieter than their combustion engine-powered relatives, but they can also be charged at home from a private power socket. They also make an important contribution to achieving climate targets.
https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/life-aging ... d/87190764

Delusions and Lies. Oh it's quiet! Yes, extra quiet when it runs out of charge on a Winter's night. But what does it matter, the Swiss are passing them over too.

Sep 2024-- Monthly Market Update: BEVs record another used-car market low in August
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')attery-electric vehicles (BEVs) hit another residual value (RV) low across Europe’s biggest used-car markets last month. Experts from Autovista Group analyse the data with Autovista24 journalist Tom Hooker.

Average RVs of three-year-old cars at 60,000km fell across most major European used-car markets during August. This decline was most visible in the UK, where residual values presented as a percentage of retained list price (%RV) dropped by 10.2 percentage points (pp) compared with August 2023. However, last month’s result marked a 0.3pp improvement on July 2024...

Barren BEV result
However, these overall declines were not as severe as those suffered by battery-electric vehicles. In August, BEVs were the worst-performing powertrain in the used-car markets of Austria, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Switzerland and the UK.

The powertrain recorded its lowest %RV figure across all seven of these markets since September 2023...
https://autovista24.autovistagroup.com/ ... in-august/

What did they say? Resale values of All car types are declining (the recession) but EV are declining a lot more. What does this mean? People will naturally be holding onto their old cars longer, and if that old car in an EV then you are up shit creek because of the battery degradation problem inherent in them.

And a fool and his money are soon parted...
We're 17 years past the peak now and the 3rd World is going hungry and dark. We'll be next, we're well on the way in fact.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Postby AdamB » Mon 09 Sep 2024, 18:46:46

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', 'T')o understand the Australian Vehicle market and why we have rejected the EV you first have to understand the mindset down here. We are not idiots!

Let's straighten something out first, were you writing this about the Australian mindset, or the Neonazi's in Australia? Because in one case your statement might be true, but the other...well...idiots and nazi fanbois go together like ham and cheese.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Postby theluckycountry » Tue 10 Sep 2024, 02:36:02

Adam when his wife forgets to put the Leaf on charge overnight.

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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Postby theluckycountry » Wed 11 Sep 2024, 01:35:18

Volkswagen Declares War On Unions, Scraps Three-Decade-Old Job Protections

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'V')W’s main target is its underperforming namesake passenger car brand, whose profit margins are getting squeezed amid a sputtering transition to EVs
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/volks ... rotections

A sputtering engine means that it is not achieving full combustion. It could be the sign of a very simple problem or it could be a symptom of a much more concerning engine, fuel system or exhaust system issue. The most common reason why an engine sputters is when you are about to run out of gas

"A sputtering transition" What a great analogy. It encompasses the overall loss of marketshare as well as the little pops and bangs of high sales in certain regions. The sort of upticks kub is all to eager to post for us.

Gov. Gavin Newsom Wants Mandate For Oil Companies To Create Stockpile Of Gasoline https://legalinsurrection.com/2024/09/g ... -gasoline/

Why Gasoline? Why not Lithium batteries or solar panels. I mean
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'a')ll new passenger cars, trucks, and SUVs sold in California will be zero-emission vehicles by 2035.
https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/resources/docume ... -questions

Why would the Governor of California want a Gasoline stockpile when in a decade there will be no gas cars sold there? It doesn't make sense unless you accept the premise that the Great Transition to EV is bullshit, and Gavin knows this all too well. Yes we are seeing all sorts of backpedaling now PeakEV is in the rear-view mirror. Thankfully we still have kub with his posturing and Adam with his two nissan leafs to keep the futuristic flag flying.

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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Postby kublikhan » Wed 11 Sep 2024, 03:31:18

I'm not surprised Zerohedge dumbs everything down to "Duuur, EV bad now VW suffer, duuur". But like most things in life things are not so simple. Take this little nugget of news for example:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'V')olkswagen announced on Thursday plans to invest 2.5 billion euros ($2.68 billion) in China to expand its production and innovation hub in the city of Hefei in Anhui Province.

Preparations are also being made for the production of the two Volkswagen brand models being developed together with Chinese partner XPENG to begin in 2026.

Ralf Brandstaetter, Volkswagen Group's management board member for China, said the Hefei site would help bring technologies to market around 30% faster as the carmaker boosts electric vehicle production there.

Volkswagen ceded its title of best-selling car brand in China to local EV manufacturer BYD in late 2022 and has announced a series of new models to electrify its portfolio in China as it battles to regain ground.
Volkswagen to invest $2.7 billion in Chinese production site

For years VW was the #1 selling brand in China. Half of VW's profits came from China. Then the Chinese EV craze came along and the traditional automotive companies went "Meh" and continued to make and sell the more profitable ICE. Unfortunately for them, EVs and hybrids continue to grow in popularity in China while VW(and some other traditional automakers) continued to see their ICE market share in China slide. VW's market share in China nearly halved between 2017 and 2024 and BYD passed them as the biggest carmaker in China. China was a huge cash cow for VW. Now that cash cow is going away. And it seems if they want to compete in China, they have to play the EV game too. They didn't want to do this. EVs are expensive. Expensive R&D, retooling and new supply chains, expensive batteries, etc. But they are seeing one of their major markets slip from their grasp right before their eyes. They are a bit late to the EV party however. Tesla and Chinese start ups have years invested in EVs by this point.

As if that were not bad enough there was the European energy crisis. For years Germany relied on cheap Russian gas to keep it's economy humming. Then the energy crisis hit and energy prices sky rocketed. This hit German manufacturers like VW hard.

And of course there is the age old problem of workers in an advanced economy like Germany are much more expensive than the much cheaper workers in China. So they close factories in expensive Germany and open them in cheap China.

So VW has expensive workers vis a vis cheap Chinese rivals, rapidly falling market share as their ICE products fall out of favor in China, a surge in domestic energy costs, Chinese rivals threating to flood their domestic market with cheap imports, and on top of all that they have to spend big on getting some EV models out the door.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')ept 9, 2024 - The bombshell that Volkswagen is considering the first ever closure of its German factories has sparked a fresh debate about the company - and the country's - exposure and strategy towards China.

Last week, Volkswagen chief executive Oliver Blume said the group was considering closing a large vehicle plant and a component factory, amid stiff competition from Chinese rivals.

"The European automotive industry is in a very demanding and serious situation. The economic environment became even tougher, and new competitors are entering the European market," he said, while also pointing to Germany's comparative weakness as a manufacturing location.

For economists and analysts, it is the latest symptom of the rapid march of cutthroat competitors from China, at a time when European companies are struggling with rising energy costs associated with decoupling from Russia, and grappling with an increasingly volatile geopolitical picture.

Germany's economic success in the first two decades of the 21st century was built on three pillars: "cheap energy from Russia, an open global trading system and highly competitive industrial products".

"In the span of a few years, the first pillar has collapsed and the other two are showing deep cracks," he said.

"China has played an important role here. In the sectors Germany once dominated, from cars to machine tools, China has evolved into a formidable competitor. This has major implications for the German economy and employment."

Between 2017 and 2024, Volkswagen sales in China fell from 4 million units to 2.5 million. Last year, it was overtaken by BYD as biggest selling carmaker in China, with Chinese companies' sales rocketing from 420,000 to 3.6 million in the same period.

Yet figures from the Bundesbank - Germany's central bank - reported by the Financial Times showed that German vehicle companies were doubling down on investments in China, even as sales dwindled.

In the first half of 2024, total German investment in the world's second economy was €7.3 billion (US$8 billion), compared with €6.5 billion (US$7.2 billion) for the whole of 2023.

At the same time, German machinery makers find that Chinese competitors are showing up in their home markets with products well below what local firms can afford to sell for.

"German carmakers are eager for the EU to maintain 'open' trade policies mainly, it seems, so that they can reduce costs by switching manufacturing into China. This probably benefits German carmakers more than it benefits the German economy." Chancellor Olaf Scholz, along with a steady stream of car industry executives, has railed against an EU move to slap anti-subsidy duties on Chinese EV imports.

These developments have provided further ammunition for those predicting a "second China shock" - a sequel to the first supposed shock of 20 years ago when China joined the World Trade Organization, ushering in a wave of outsourcing and a hollowing out of American manufacturing.

This time around, it is seen to be caused by exported industrial capacity in key hi-tech industries.

"The second China shock will play out differently around the world because for many economies, like Germany, it will be associated with the loss of export markets, not just a surge in imports."

"This process is already well under way. German exports to China as a share of German GDP have been falling for the last two to three years."

"I think it's really important to just add up all the profits that Volkswagen Group has had since 1998 - Volkswagen would not be who they are without the China market. Fifty per cent of their profits come from China, so it's not like they didn't gain anything from it. I feel like they want to play the victim, yet they've been counting their money for the last 35 years."
VW factory fears renew concerns about China exposure of German carmakers
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Postby theluckycountry » Wed 11 Sep 2024, 17:25:17

Adam, I want you to do something for me. Every time you take a leaf out for a drive, and you're checking the range left on the gauge, Think of me. When you bring it home and go through that process of plugging it every time, think of me. When you see the clouds come over for days and you know you'll be charging off the Grid now, think of me.

And you will of course, because now I've put the idea in your head, it will be there, thinking of me. Just think of me ok. "The luckycountry is a gentle breeze." "The lucky country"

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