[Geology_Guy]

Reunite Gondwanaland!!

Given the choice of Mexico or the US I choose the US. We have a Bill of Rights which comes in darn handy. I respect people of Mexican heritage as well as Native Americans, but when you start changing national boundaries it only leads to grief. I love Ireland, but Ireland for the Irish is not worth killing over. In the same way California is part of the US and it should stay that way. Anyway my ancestors left Ireland and Germany 200 years ago. I figure they would not take many of us back. We have to learn to live in peace where we are.

[MicroHydro]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Geology_Guy', 'I') choose the US. We have a Bill of Rights.

[UIUCstudent01]

I didn't realize at all that this was happening..

This was only one event it looks like, are there more?

(Also, the whole socialism/communist revolution people are being opportunists in finding disgruntled people... They're at alot of protests... So, I am discounting their whole 'revolution' crap - seeing as they've been saying that for quite awhile now..)

[k_semler]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('marko', 'I')t is true that the US took California and what is now the US Southwest by force from Mexico. So why the outrage if the Mexicans or Chicanos claim to want to take it back?

There would not be such anger and resentment toward Anglos among Mexicans and Chicanos if most Anglos didn't treat Mexicans and Chicanos like dirt. If Anglos would accept our darker-skinned neighbors as equals instead of proclaiming our privilege and superiority, maybe the darker-skinned folks would feel less need to celebrate their own national holidays so defiantly.

They are defiant because they are mostly consigned to the shit jobs and excluded from power in the regions where they live.

By the way, I am Anglo by heritage, my mother's family is from Texas, and I was born in California and lived there for some years. So I am not a self-righteous outsider.

[k_semler]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gnm', 'A')ny of you who are preaching "what comes around..." Who was indigenous where YOU are? And btw the "chicanos" weren't indigenous here EITHER. If ya really want to give it back call the american Indians...

Its the USA now so get over it.... And if ya like Mexico so much - GO HOME.

we got people flying Mexican flags here on cinco de whatever...

losers.

-G

[k_semler]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('k_semler', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rockdoc123', 'l')et me get this straight......Americans take Southern California away from the Mexicans by force.....Mexicans take it back by stealth..Turn about fair play?

[Geology_Guy]

Hmmm-yes I have heard of the Patriot Act. Have you heard of the Bill of Rights? I still say it trumps the Patriot Act.

I had a libertarian friend tell me once that America has two choices-either shut down the borders to illegal immigration, or internally impose order so laws are followed. Since anybody can walk across our borders we get things like he Patriot Act or people talking about national IDs. I ever did understand why Mexico kicks out any illegal immigrants from American-all we want is the same standard to apply in the USA. BTW I heard on the news yesterday that legal immigration to Canada is down since Bush won the presidency, but I thought all those liberals said they were moving to Canada?

[marko]

Yeah! Rah rah! America for Americans! (Whoever that is.) Anyone who disagrees can die a painful death. Off to Guantanamo with them.

People who take that position are basically fascists who will be used by the US government for its own ruthless ends, which do not include looking after or even defending the American people.

If you want to be an ignorant macho stooge, feel free. Enjoy the bloody show while you can. The US government, which represents multinational corporations without any national loyalties, will be happy for your support. You will be very useful in deflecting people's discontent with a corporate-government partnership that is robbing the American people onto immigrants who have no power.

(Those immigrants come here, by the way, because multinational corporations, backed by the US government, have forced Mexico to do away with legal protections that would have allowed those people to make a living in Mexico. They have done this because those legal protections were getting in the way of multinational profits.)

Your loyal support for the US government, at the service of the multinationals, will not stop them from laying you off, destroying your client base, foreclosing on your property, and sending you off to a labor camp along with everyone else, whether they were born in Mexico or New Mexico.

[Phil]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('marko', '
')(Those immigrants come here, by the way, because multinational corporations, backed by the US government, have forced Mexico to do away with legal protections that would have allowed those people to make a living in Mexico. They have done this because those legal protections were getting in the way of multinational profits.)

[HonestPessimist]

Honestly, ask yourself these questions about Mexico and Mexicans in general:

Have the people of Mexico made any effort to make their country the best place to live and work? Have the people of Mexico made any effort to greatly reduce crimes, homicide and/or kidnapping in their country? Have the people of Mexico made any effort to curtail the flow of immigration of people from Central America or South America to the US without encouraging them to stay and live in Mexico? Have the people of Mexico made any effort to put drug cartels out of business for good, end rampart corruption and bribery of Mexican law enforcement and military officials? Have the people of Mexico made themselves being environmentally responsible and encourage public recycling of wastes so far? Any reduction of air pollution so far (Mexico City have one of the highest percentages of pollution of any city in the world)? Have the people of Mexico become socially, morally and ethically responsible for their own internal, governmental, economical, educational and cultural affairs so far?

Then why in the world prompted Mexicans to move or immigrate to the US in such great numbers from the country of their birth, rich in history, resources, beautiful lands, great cuisine, great music and wonderful cultural festivals?!

Maybe we American Anglos, blacks, Asians, etc should move to Mexico and make it so much better than the United States! Let's give Mexico an Extreme Makeover, American style!

[Free]

Wow I am really glad that the USA live up to their ideal of the harmonic multicultural melting pot and that there is one country in the world which doesn't fall for atavistic xenophobic scaremongering. At least that's what I saw in the movies. Way to go!

[k_semler]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('marko', 'Y')eah! Rah rah! America for Americans! (Whoever that is.) Anyone who disagrees can die a painful death. Off to Guantanamo with them.

People who take that position are basically fascists who will be used by the US government for its own ruthless ends, which do not include looking after or even defending the American people.

If you want to be an ignorant macho stooge, feel free. Enjoy the bloody show while you can. The US government, which represents multinational corporations without any national loyalties, will be happy for your support. You will be very useful in deflecting people's discontent with a corporate-government partnership that is robbing the American people onto immigrants who have no power.

(Those immigrants come here, by the way, because multinational corporations, backed by the US government, have forced Mexico to do away with legal protections that would have allowed those people to make a living in Mexico. They have done this because those legal protections were getting in the way of multinational profits.)

Your loyal support for the US government, at the service of the multinationals, will not stop them from laying you off, destroying your client base, foreclosing on your property, and sending you off to a labor camp along with everyone else, whether they were born in Mexico or New Mexico.

[PenultimateManStanding]

Why judge Mexicans by the attitudes of the radicals in La Raza? Let me go on the record as stating that I like Mexicans. There is a long and rich history of connection between Mexico and Los Estados Unidos. Mexico-bashers can go sniff a drainpipe as far as I'm concerned. Sure there are sore points. That's in the past, get over it.

[lotrfan55345]

IQ tests are really accurate, aren't they?

The "iq" has directly to do with socio-economic prosparity... what do you expect from a 3rd world country? Most 3rd world countries have average IQ's of 80's or lower.

Only 15 countries only have a supposed IQ average of 100 or higher, and the USA isn't one of them. (They are mostly Asian/European)

[I_Like_Plants]

The US at least WAS a country with an avg. IQ of 100+, but I guess the fairly large sub-populations within the US, being counted now, and breeding like rabbits, have brought it down. Average a major group with an avg. IQ of 110 or so, with a bunch of ppl with IQs in the 70 and 80 range, and it makes the country look dull normal.

Meanwhile, in the wilds of Utah, kids are building their own atom smashers, tykes from wildest Iowa etc are winning the spelling bees, and so on. There's still the old original America out there.

[Bellopheron]

Robot B-9 Weighs In:

http://www.tarantulas.net/guestusers/us ... nister.wav

[Bellopheron]

Tolerance now means embracing public urination

TOM KNOTT (METRO)
By Tom Knott
August 11, 2005


You just want a cup of coffee and a doughnut from the 7-Eleven in Herndon, and the Hispanic gentlemen hanging out in the parking lot there ask whether you want a gardener, painter or a handyman of varying quality as well.
    This is the daily drill that challenges the incredibly enlightened who believe in the worthiness of virtually unfettered immigration, legal or otherwise. They believe in it until one of the new arrivals is hooting at a babe or addressing a bladder issue on the side of the building. They believe in it until one of them separates you from your wallet.
    We all can agree that these faux way stations are a problem, unfair to the communities and the small-business owners who did not sign up to be a loitering ground. Back in the day, it would have been so simple to address. Someone would have posted a no loitering sign, the police would have enforced it, and that would have been the end of it.
    But it is not so simple today, because we have been ordered to try to understand another people's culture, and respect it as well, and maybe relieving yourself in public is part of the culture, and we need to understand that, we need to respect that and maybe we even need to have a Public Urination Pride Day.
    Of course, Fairfax County officials are looking to resolve the issue with your money. They have stumbled on the notion of having formal centers for day laborers, because it has been done in other communities, and it allows everyone to have it both ways. You cannot be accused of being a heartless bigot if you erect a Day Laborer Center and stock it with Spanish-language reading materials, if not a pool table, a flat-screen television and, most important, a bathroom.
    If a percentage of the day laborers are illegal aliens, what does it matter? That is a federal issue, not a state one, and our borders come with a big, fat welcome mat.

http://washingtontimes.com/metro/200508 ... -6271r.htm

[I_Like_Plants]

Yep I'm getting sick and tired of people saying it's only those who have not had contact with other races, are haters. In the real world, the more contact with other races, the more hatred one learns, as a basic survival mechanism.

[CaptainJackSparrow]

Budweiser and Disinformation: Rewriting Cinco de Mayo
I am trying to collect true information on the history of Cinco de Mayo and the Battle for Puebla, and the involvement of Anheuser-Busch in the promotion of the holiday. Here is what I have, note ll of the variances.

MALDEF, "Drinko por Cinco" and
Anheuser-Busch


Most U.S. based Raza are not aware that "Cinco de Mayo" is not celebrated in Mexico as it is in Aztlan. Why and how did this day become so celebrated in the southwestern part of the United States? There are many reasons, but one of the principal ones is its "marketing" by the mostly Jewish owned alcohol industry.

Take for example the multi-billion dollar Jewish brewery by the name of Anheuser-Busch. The corporation which is, presently controlled by August Busch IV, learned that marketing Budweiser beer and other alcohol products to both the Black and Mexican communities could be highly profitable. Thirty years ago, Anheuser-Busch began a highly successful program that included buying the cooperation of national Hispanic and Black organizations and leaders. One consequence of the alcohol's industry targeting of Mexicanos was the slogan "Drinko por Cinco". The devastation to both communities, has in many cases, been worst than the crack-cocaine epidemic.

The Mexican American Legal Defense and Education Fund (MALDEF) as well as Jesse Jackson's Rainbow Coalition have been two principal ethnic organizations that have been bought by the Jewish owned Anheuser-Busch Corporation. It is interesting to know that the Jewish Mogul Ron Burkle, who is behind the Chicano candidate for Mayor of Los Angeles Tony Villar (a.k.a. Antonio Villaraigosa), also helped set up some of the deals with the Rainbow Coalition, MALDEF and the Anheuser-Busch Corporation.

CONTINUED http://aztlan.net/drinko.htm

Marching on toward Mexico City, the French army encountered strong resistance at the Mexican forts of Loreto and Guadalupe. Lead by Mexican General Ignacio Zaragoza Seguin, a small, poorly armed militia estimated at 4,500 men were able to stop and defeat a well outfitted French army of 6,500 soldiers, which stopped the invasion of the country. The victory was a glorious moment for Mexican patriots, which at the time helped to develop a needed sense of national unity, and is the cause for the historical date's celebration. http://www.mexonline.com/cinco.htm

The 5th of May is not Mexican Independence Day, but it should be!* And Cinco de Mayo is not an American holiday, but it should be.* Mexico declared its independence from mother Spain on midnight, the 15th of September, 1810.* And it took 11 years before the first Spanish soldiers were told and forced to leave Mexico.

So, why Cinco de Mayo?* And why should Americans savor this day as well?* Because 4,000 Mexican soldiers smashed the French and traitor Mexican army of 8,000 at Puebla, Mexico, 100 miles east of Mexico City on the morning of May 5, 1862. http://www.vivacincodemayo.org/history.htm

After reinforcements arrived, a French force of (7,000) seven thousand set out on the (225) two hundred twenty five mile route to Mexico City in early April under the illusion that the Mexican people would welcome them. This illusion was fostered by Juan N. Almonte, a Mexican reactionary, and by Count Dubois du Saligny appointed French Ambassador to Mexico by Napoleon. Presidente Juárez commanded General Ignacio Zaragoza to block the advance of the French Army with 2,000 soldiers at the fortified hills of Loreto and Guadalupe by the city of Puebla.

On May 5th, 1862, cannons boomed and rifle shots rang out as the French soldiers attacked the two forts. Before the day was over, one fort was in ruins and more than a thousand French soldiers were dead. The Mexicans had won the battle, but not the war. Yet, this date was established as symbolic of the Mexicans' courage against a formidable army. http://www.nacnet.org/assunta/spa5may.htm

In 1862, the French army began its advance. Under General Ignacio Zaragoza, 5,000 ill-equipped Mestizo and Zapotec Indians defeated the French army in what came to be known as the "Batalla de Puebla" on the fifth of May. http://latino.sscnet.ucla.edu/cinco.html

At the time, the French Army of Napoleon III was considered the premier army in the world.* It had enjoyed recent victories throughout Europe and Asia.* The French expected to march form the port city of Veracruz to Mexico City without encountering much resistance.* President Juárez sent troops, under the command of General Ignacio Zaragosa, to Puebla to confront the French.* The Mexican troops consisted almost entirely of indigenous soldiers, much like today.* General Zaragosa's troops, outnumbered 4,700 to 5,200, were severely under-equipped. *La Batalla de Puebla raged on for two hours, after which time the French were forced to retreat to Orizaba.* Despite tremendous odds, the humble Mexican Army defeated the most powerful fighting unit in the world! http://www.azteca.net/aztec/literat/Cinco.html

Cinco de May commemorates the May 5, 1862 Battle of Puebla (Batalla de Puebla) in which General Ignacio Zaragoza's Mexican troops defeated Napolean III's French forces. France, along with England and Spain, had occupied Mexico since mid-1861 as a result of President Benito Juarez' moratorium on foreign debt payments. Eventually England and Spain withdrew but the French remained in an attempt to create an empire in Mexico. The French began a military advance on Mexico and on May 5, 1862, about 5,000 Mestizo and Zapotec Indians defeated Napolean's army. http://www3.kumc.edu/diversity/ethnic_relig/cinco.html

The holiday originated with a surprising battle. In 1861, France, England and Spain sent ships to Mexico to settle a debt. Within a few months, an agreement was reached and the British and Spanish navy set sail toward home. But the French ships, by order of Napoleon III, began an attack. On May 5, 1862, 6000 soldiers under the commander of the French forces tried to capture the forts of Loreto and Guadalupe in Puebla de Los Angeles, Mexico. Two thousand Mexican men, led by General Ignazio Zaragoza, fought back hard and held the fort. Although smaller in number, the Mexican army won this battle but they did not win the war. The French conquered the country, and in 1864, a European emperor was put on the Mexican throne. Three years later, after a reign filled with problems, the emperor was deposed and killed. http://homeschooling.about.com/cs/un...incodemayo.htm

Certain that French victory would come swiftly in Mexico, 6,000 French troops under General Charles Latrille de Lorencez set out to attack Puebla de Los Angeles. From his new headquarters in the north, Juarez rounded up a rag-tag force of loyal men and sent them to Puebla. Led by Texas-born General Zaragoza, the 2,000 Mexicans fortified the town and prepared for the French assault. On the fifth of May, 1862, Lorencez drew his army, wellprovisioned and supported by heavy artillery, before the city of Puebla and began their assault from the north. The battle lasted from daybreak to early evening, and when the French finally retreated they had lost nearly 500 soldiers to the fewer than 100 Mexicans killed. http://www.historychannel.com/exhibi...ge=cincodemayo

Although Juarez was recognized by the United States and received both moral and military aid from the U.S., there were over $80,000,000.00 in debts at that time owed by Mexico to Europe alone. The Mexican Congress decreed in July, 1861, the suspension for 2 years of interest payments on the external national debt, and 3 months later a convention was convened among Great Britain, France, and Spain calling for joint intervention in Mexico. As European forces advanced, and particularly the French troops, their advance was checked at Puebla on May 5, 1862. http://www.fireworks.com/holidays/Cinco-de-mayo.asp

[lotrfan55345]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('I_Like_Plants', 'Y')ep I'm getting sick and tired of people saying it's only those who have not had contact with other races, are haters. In the real world, the more contact with other races, the more hatred one learns, as a basic survival mechanism.