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THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

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THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Postby theluckycountry » Sat 13 Jan 2024, 16:33:08

It's true that Tesla's construction practices are worse that legacy car manufacturers, but in one sense they have it right. The batteries in these cars are so expensive to replace that after 10 years or so it makes more sense to just buy another car, like another toaster or kettle or iphone. Why spend extra making a car repairable when it will be on the scrap heap in a decade? This is their thinking perhaps. I don't agree with making cars like modern toasters but it doesn't surprise me, it's happened to the the building industry, many industries if you look around. It's the sad truth I am afraid.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Postby ralfy » Mon 15 Jan 2024, 20:28:06

It's like planned obsolescence needed to continue businesses.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Postby theluckycountry » Tue 16 Jan 2024, 18:22:30

Well it is all based on rapidly changing tech, I mean who want's a 10 year old computer? Now that the wheels have fallen off at 1% uptake I presume they will keep selling them to the city hipsters but the numbers will be a lot lower. I mean they still sold Segways for a decade and more, they just didn't take over the cities as was touted by the President and all the intellectuals who got on the bandwagon.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he Segway PT made a splash in December 3, 2001 when it was unveiled on Good Morning America. Inventor Dean Kamen said that an urban transportation revolution was coming and cars would be obsolete. Kamen felt it was absurd to use 4,000-pound cars and trucks for short trips. “It was a great invention 20 years ago,” said Ho. “Now it seems a bit outdated.” He added that some police departments have shifted to Ninebot’s cheaper electric scooters.

Rather than being cool and world-changing, the Segway developed a nerdy reputation. As former Segway employee Matt Gelbwaks told CNN in a 2018 profile of the company, “There was a significant dork factor.”
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/23/tech/seg ... index.html

Dork factor :lol: Yes well the EV certainly has that about it. A manbun or Metrosexual element.

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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Postby theluckycountry » Wed 17 Jan 2024, 23:36:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'E')lectric vehicle owners this winter have been saddled with charging woes due to the deep freeze.

Local media reports show a surge of Tesla owners waiting in long lines for public chargers due to the cold hampering the vehicles’ ranges. Some became stranded and forced to have their EVs towed to a charging station because their battery levels plummeted to empty. Others said their vehicles simply wouldn’t charge.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 ... nightmare/

Didn't they know that the range is drastically cut when you run the cabin heater flat out? And you have to heat the battery too. Imagine being stuck at a charging station for an hour in freezing conditions. And what about when it's raining? They don't have awnings like petrol stations do.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')ertz to Sell 20,000 of Its Electric Vehicles, Offers Discounts on Teslas

Reuters noted “Hertz even limited the torque and speed on the EVs and offered it to experienced users on the platform to make them easier to adapt after certain users had front-end collisions.“ Hertz has to limit the speed to prevent crashes. What a hoot.
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... nk.319552/
Go look at the prices, they are slashing them.

Why All EV Charging Companies Are Losing Money
EV charging companies are collapsing, share prices have fallen 70% and every single one is losing money. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CUhrgoU4VU It's a failed business model. A real nail in the coffin of the EV.

Here Is The SHOCKING Cost Of Electric Car Batteries From Every Car Brand https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dbyh86c8PcI
We're talking $40~50 grand.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Postby theluckycountry » Thu 18 Jan 2024, 17:57:48

Dead Teslas pack Chicago area Supercharger station
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFAtqWOaEgg
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Postby theluckycountry » Fri 19 Jan 2024, 17:22:58

Ford Prepares To Cut F-150 Lightning Electric Truck Production
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'F')ord Motor's electric vehicle sales are running out of juice as the company plans to slash production of its all-electric F-150 Lightning in April. Spin --> "to achieve the optimal balance of production, sales growth and profitability."

... first discussed in a planning memo to suppliers obtained by Automotive News in early December. The memo pointed out "changing market demand" for the cuts. "We'll continue to match production with customer demand," a Ford spokeswoman said last month.
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/ford- ... production

Reducing production because Peak EV has been reached.

And some more spin was thrown in too of course.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '&')quot;We are taking advantage of our manufacturing flexibility to offer customers choices while balancing our growth and profitability. Customers love the F-150 Lightning, America's best-selling EV pickup," Ford President and CEO Jim Farley said.


Yes of course they Love it Ford, they just don't love being stuck beside a malfunctioning supercharger outlet in subzero temperatures.

I mean lets use our brains here shall we. Does the average driver, Selfish in the extreme, who can't even bear to be on the road without an air-conditioner running and a surround sound system playing their favorite playlist, do they really want to stand around for an hour or longer (in any type of weather) while their car fills up? You mightn't like the outcome, and you can protest all you like that the EV is the "future", but the people have voted.

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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Postby kublikhan » Fri 19 Jan 2024, 19:00:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', 'R')educing production because Peak EV has been reached.
Incorrect. EV sales are hitting new records.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'J')an 13, 2024 - Over the past few months, multiple media outlets have suggested U.S. sales of electric vehicles are losing steam, or have stalled out, or look grim for 2024, or that makers, dealers, and buyers are dawdling. Even Hertz, which was going all in on EVs two years ago, is now reducing its EV fleet.

There's just one little problem: Last year, U.S. sales of EVs were the highest ever, both in sheer numbers and as a percentage of the overall new-car market. Global sales: ditto. The EV Sales Tracker from EVadoption estimates nearly 1.2 million battery-electric vehicles and another 190,000 plug-in hybrids were sold in 2023, totaling 1.36 million vehicles. That's 8.8 percent of the total of 15.5 million, per Wards Intelligence—and it represents EVs' highest-ever share of new-car sales.

Moreover, 2024 is expected to set another new record for volume of EVs sold and their share of the total market. Colin McKerracher of Bloomberg projects 2024 EV sales in the U.S. at just under 1.9 million units, making up 13 percent of new-car purchases. This year should see fewer of the supply constraints that hobbled availability over the last four years.

Some makers—most notably GM and Ford—delayed investments to add future EV battery or assembly capacity. They gave various reasons, but pushing out a factory startup date by a year isn't canceling it altogether. In an era of much pricier loan rates, corporations too must conserve cash where possible.

It's unclear how EV sales will stack up this year, though it is very unlikely they will fall from last year's levels.

U.S. Is Not the Center of EV Sales
For greater context, be aware the U.S. isn't where the bulk of global EV sales or innovation happens. That would be China, which will likely account for 10 million EV sales this year, more than half the global total. Almost four out of every 10 new vehicles sold in China will be an EV this year, giving its makers the experience and higher volumes to keep cutting costs. Those numbers stem from 10 years of effort and hundreds of billions of dollars of strategic investment by national, state, and local Chinese governments.

The goal was to ensure the country dominates EV metals, battery assembly, and EV production worldwide—and that's exactly what it does. Despite lavish promises and tens of billions of investment made or planned, Detroit's automakers aren't anywhere close to that scale. Nor are European makers or most Asian companies.

Meanwhile, the U.S. represents only 11 percent of global EV sales. Its market has unique features that make it challenging for EVs, including buyers' strong appetite for full-size pickup trucks and SUVs that are simply too large to be sold anywhere else.

Nevertheless, more new vehicles with plugs are on sale in the U.S. this year than ever before. They'll sell better this year than they did last year. In other words: Don't believe everything you read, check the data, notice which EVs are showing up on your local roads—and, as always, do your own research online and at dealers.
EV Sales Are Just Getting Started

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', 'Y')ou mightn't like the outcome, and you can protest all you like that the EV is the "future", but the people have voted.
Indeed, EV sales continue to grow. Over a third of vehicle sales in the world's biggest auto market are plugin. You might not like that fact. You might think EVs are nothing but segways and should have peaked by now. But facts are facts.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Postby theluckycountry » Sat 20 Jan 2024, 05:19:08

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kublikhan', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', 'R')educing production because Peak EV has been reached.
EV sales are hitting new records.


Irrelevant. Ev sales today or tomorrow mean nothing against the falling rate of sales increase.
U.S. EV sales fell short of predictions in 2023 https://fortune.com/2024/01/08/us-ev-sa ... l-johnson/

And the only way they achieved the sales they did was to Slash prices. But they can't slash anymore so it's game over. Ford Knows it, Toyota knew it a decade ago, it's only the fanboys still in denial. What follows Peak EV? A long protracted decline in sales of course. Expect that in the first two quarters of 2024.

Average temperatures across the Chicago metro area plunged below zero this week. Resulting in a double whammy for electric vehicle owners: paralyzed charging networks and battery degradation because of the cold blast.

There are tens of thousands of people up there bitterly regretting they were suckered into an EV. But that's always the way with Beta testers. You take your lumps.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Postby theluckycountry » Sat 20 Jan 2024, 05:41:52

You have to stop living in the past kub, Ford isn't. Why do you think they are drastically scaling back production of the best EV truck in the US, because they think sales are booming? Forget your 5-year old Elon Mush vids for a minute and look at what's actually happening in the EV sphere. Collapsing subsidies, collapsing Charge point companies, it all paints a dire picture.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Postby kublikhan » Sat 20 Jan 2024, 14:20:24

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', 'I')rrelevant. Ev sales today or tomorrow mean nothing against the falling rate of sales increase.
U.S. EV sales fell short of predictions in 2023 https://fortune.com/2024/01/08/us-ev-sa ... l-johnson/

And the only way they achieved the sales they did was to Slash prices. But they can't slash anymore so it's game over. Ford Knows it, Toyota knew it a decade ago, it's only the fanboys still in denial. What follows Peak EV? A long protracted decline in sales of course. Expect that in the first two quarters of 2024.
You are leaping to a conclusion without all of the facts. First of all, 2023 saw high interest rates. Not only did this cause the overall growth rate of the global economy to slowdown in 2023, it also had a detrimental impact on the borrowing costs of car buyers. And since EVs cost more than ICE, they were hit proportionally harder than ICE vehicles.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]EV financing
Most EVs are purchased on loans. However, buyers are facing an issue across the auto industry regarding car financing; rising loan amounts.

The impact of rising interest rates on EV adoption
An increase in interest rates can have a significant impact on the affordability of EVs. With rising interest rates, financing costs rise, making it difficult for consumers to purchase an EV. This can make EVs less accessible to lower-income households, as they may be unable to secure the necessary financing. Additionally, EV buyers may be more likely to purchase used or less expensive models of vehicles due to cost constraints, thus reducing the overall growth of the EV market.

Impact on the global economy
The impact of rising interest rates on the adoption of EVs can also have implications for the global economy. As the cost of financing increases, the cost of producing EVs is likely to increase. This can lead to an increase in the cost of production.

Conclusion
The impact of rising interest rates on the adoption of EVs is significant. An increase in interest rates can make EVs less affordable and less attractive to potential buyers, thus reducing the overall growth of the EV market. Additionally, an increase in interest rates can lead to an increase in the cost of production and a decrease in their resale value, thus making them less attractive to potential buyers. Finally, the impact of rising interest rates on the adoption of EVs can have implications for the global economy and the environment.
Impact of rising interest rates on EV Adoption

Second, the Ford Lightning is not exactly a stellar buy. Not only did it came out much more expensive than it was supposed to, but the vehicle itself performed poorly. It is not surprising to me that the vehicle is not selling well and Ford has to cut production.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he Lightning was supposed to be somewhat affordable, with a starting price of $41,669 when it went on sale in May 2022. That price was a mirage. Ford has saddled the F-150 Lightning a number of price hikes, diminishing the everyman appeal a bit more each time. At one point, the price of the Lightning Pro had jumped a staggering, almost inconceivable $20,100 more than its original base price. Things got better in July, with the Pro dropping by almost $10,000 to $51,990—still a long way from the $41,000 we were promised. Even so, the optics weren't great, and the $51,990 base price doesn't get shoppers in the door like a $41,000 MSRP would.

We would be loathe not to mention our own mixed feelings about our time with the truck during our long-term test, too. We've had qualms about efficiency and range prediction, towing frustrations, and groaned about expensive subscription features. In some ways, our trucks didn't meet our expectations—and so there may be an issue with consumer expectations versus electric pickup realities.

There's more to the picture that we can't fairly weigh and measure, like the costs of the UAW strike (which occurred after the MSRP revisions), supplier costs, and so forth. But the bottom line is frustrating for any consumer interested in an affordable EV pickup truck like the one Ford originally promised: Instead of slashing prices, Ford is slashing production. A Ford representative told us the company "will continue to match Lightning production to customer demand," but reducing supply seems more likely to keep MSRPs higher, and the Lightning out of the hands of otherwise interested buyers, when a price cut might spur more demand. After all, look at the initial interest in the truck back when it supposedly cost just over forty grand.
It’s No Mystery Why the F-150 Lightning EV Isn’t Selling Like Ford Hoped

Third, you are living in the past with your views on Toyota. Toyota did an about face in 2023 and is now in a mad scramble to catch up with it's peers in the EV market.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')n earthquake has rumbled through Toyota City in Japan. For the past two decades, Toyota has clung stubbornly to two core beliefs — its Synergy Drive hybrid powertrain was the pinnacle of the automotive world, and the future of transportation will be powered by hydrogen. It has sat idly by for a decade as Tesla appeared from nowhere to spark the EV revolution, and China embraced electric cars with zeal.

Earlier this year, Akio Toyoda finally stepped aside and passed the reins to Koji Sato, who dutifully promised to carry on as if Toyoda-san was still running the show. But Sato was just being polite. Less than 6 months later, Toyota is waking from its long winter’s nap and planning a full scale effort to get back in the electric car game.

There are signs that insiders have been quietly pursuing the development of electric cars in an under-the-radar kind of way while waiting for Akio Toyoda to step aside. Its plans call for the introduction of full lineup of electric Toyota and Lexus cars by 2026 — proof that it has been preparing a foundation for EVs for a while now. Typically it requires 3 to 5 years to take an idea and turn it into a production vehicle.

Toyota has a huge challenge ahead if it wants to retain its position as one of the world’s dominant car manufacturers. It started late and is at least a lap behind the rest of the field.
Toyota Wakes Up To Find That It’s 2023 & There’s An EV Revolution Going On

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'F')ollowing the arrival of new CEO Koji Sato, Toyota has dramatically increased its commitment to electrics, with the aim being to catch rivals with a wave of new models and innovative battery technology. One of the first new EVs will be a three-row SUV (pictured above) that is set to be produced at Toyota's Georgetown, Kentucky, plant from 2025, and which will be aimed at the same part of the market as the Kia EV9. Toyota says this new model will use batteries produced in its own factory in Liberty, North Carolina, a plant that already employs 2000 people but is set to increase to 5000.

By 2030 Toyota says it will be able to make 30 GWh of batteries in North Carolina each year, enough for 375,000 80.0-kWh packs, but with production split across 10 different lines to produce different-sized packs for EV and plug-in-hybrid models. Toyota says it is committed to making 3.5 million EVs annually by 2030, with 30 different models across Toyota and Lexus brands. Toyota Lays Out Its EV Battery Road Map

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')oyota Motor said on Tuesday it would boost investment by $8 billion and add about 3,000 jobs at its electric-vehicle battery manufacturing plant in North Carolina, accelerating the Japanese automaker's push to electrify its lineup. The company, which plans to have electrified options for all its models available by 2025, said the latest move will bring its total investment in the plant to about $13.9 billion and jobs to more than 5,000.

Unlike global peers, Toyota had earlier bet on hybrids and hydrogen-fuel cell vehicles rather than battery EVs, but the world's top-selling automaker this year announced a pivot, with plans to commercialize advanced batteries and adopt die-casting technology pioneered by Tesla. Toyota pledges $8 billion more for US battery plant to rev up EV push

And you are making another Peak EV call? Shocking. So you think EV sales will fall in 2024? Well then I guess I should make a call too: I predict EV sales in 2024 will be higher than 2023. I guess we will see who is correct.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Postby kublikhan » Sat 20 Jan 2024, 14:24:27

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', 'A')verage temperatures across the Chicago metro area plunged below zero this week. Resulting in a double whammy for electric vehicle owners: paralyzed charging networks and battery degradation because of the cold blast.

There are tens of thousands of people up there bitterly regretting they were suckered into an EV. But that's always the way with Beta testers. You take your lumps.
Growing pains. Many are not yet used to driving their EVs in the winter. Just like with ICE, you need to make certain precautions for winter. Tesla recommends not letting battery charge fall below 20% in the winter. Yet some of these people had single digits of charge left. This is not unlike the recommendation to keep a full tank of gas in the winter months for ICE vehicles. Tesla also recommends to start pre-conditioning(heating) the battery on your drive to the charging station. It will even do this automatically if you are using a navigation system to get there. Yet not everyone did this. Then they were surprised when they had to sit and wait half an hour for the battery to warm up before they could even start charging. This is not necessarily their fault. Tesla might not have communicated clearly to do this. Again, this is not unlike the fact that many people in cold climates have a block heater in their ICE car and don't use it. I wouldn't be surprised if many didn't even know they had a block heater in their car or even what it was.

Norway has colder temperatures than Chicago, more EVs, and had them for longer. Yet they get by just fine through harsh Norway winters.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'J')anuary 17, 2024 - With a cold snap causing below-zero temperatures across Chicago, electric vehicle drivers there have been struggling with charging issues, reduced battery life, and plummeting range. It’s part of the learning curve of adapting to EVs, but drivers could look to Norway, the Scandinavian country that’s a leader in electric vehicle adoption, for reassurance that their battery-powered cars can handle freezing weather.

That cold temperatures affect an electric vehicle’s range isn’t new information; experts have been studying this effect for years. Cold temperatures actually make gas combustion cars less efficient, too, reducing the amount of mileage they get out of a gallon. But EVs are especially affected thanks to their reliance on the battery for both mileage and features like heating and defrosting.

Norway, which tested how the cold impacts EV range, is a leader in terms of global EV adoption; in 2022, all-electric vehicles made up 80% of passenger vehicle sales there, and in October 2023, EVs hit a 91.3% share of auto registrations (84% of which were full electric vehicles). The country’s winter temperatures—which average around -6.8 degrees Celsius, or around 19 degrees Fahrenheit, but can reach as low as -40 degrees Fahrenheit—have also been a test for the technology. So far, EVs have largely passed—as long as drivers are prepared. Ståle Frydenlund, test manager for the Norwegian Electric Vehicle Association, told the Globe and Mail in 2023 that EVs are “quite able to cope with winter if you know what you’re doing.”

HOW CAN EV DRIVERS PROTECT THEIR CAR’S BATTERIES FROM THE COLD?
Drivers of gas cars have likely heard that they shouldn’t let their gas tank get dangerously low in freezing temperatures—more air in your tank, experts say, means more moisture that could condense and freeze, blocking fuel from flowing. Similarly, EV drivers are having to learn how to protect their vehicles against winter weather.

In a blog post on an Audi dealership site, one Norwegian family shared tips for using their Audi EV in the winter, like pre-heating the car while it’s still plugged into their home charging (this is also called preconditioning), or using just the steering wheel or seat heating as a way to stay warm, and save range, on short trips. (These types of heating use less energy than warming up the entire car’s cabin.)

Just like with internal combustion cars, you should also check the tire pressure, which may drop in the cold.

EV drivers should also keep an eye on their battery level and ensure it doesn’t get too low, as bringing it back to a full charge will take longer in the cold (many EVs actually limit charging speeds when the battery is cold, in order to protect it from extreme temperature fluctuations). Home chargers are helpful for this as drivers can keep their EV plugged in overnight (with a maximum charge setting around 70%), which will keep the battery at a warm temperature.
EVs work fine in the cold in Norway. Here’s how they do it

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')any of those who think their cars won't charge are new to EVs and don't know how to “precondition” their batteries, said Westlake, who has two Teslas. “They're just learning,” he said. “And Tesla isn't very good at explaining some things.” In frigid temperatures, it can take a half hour to warm the battery so it's ready to charge, Westlake said. Preconditioning the battery does cost some range, although it's usually only a few miles, he said.

Bansal, who has had her Tesla for only a week, didn't know about preconditioning the car before charging, but she does now. A few stalls away from her, Kim Burney's Tesla Model 3 was charging just a little slower than it does in normal temperatures. She had driven farther than she thought on a trip to her dentist in Ann Arbor Wednesday morning and wanted to get close to a full charge for the rest of the day's travels. So she told the car she was going to the charging station and it was ready by the time she arrived and plugged in.

THE FUTURE OF CHARGING
In the short run, automakers are likely to come up with better ways to protect battery life and warm them for charging, Dasgupta said. And there are new battery chemistries in development that are more resilient in cold weather.

In the short term, Dasgupta said that as more mainstream consumers buy EVs, and as more automakers enter the market, they'll develop models using existing lithium-ion chemistry that are tailored to colder climates. In some cases overall range might have to be sacrificed a little to get better cold-weather performance, he said.

Millions are being invested in new battery technology that performs better in the cold that will find its way from military, aerospace and undersea applications into electric vehicles, Dasgupta said.

“You can be an EV driver in a cold-weather climate,” he said. “Be optimistic and excited about what the future holds because it's only going to get better from here.”
Frigid weather can cut electric vehicle range and make charging tough. Here's what you need to know

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')old weather leads to more breakdowns for fuel-powered cars than electric vehicles, according to a Norwegian road assistance service.
Electric cars fail less in extreme cold than fuel-powered vehicles, Norwegian breakdowns reveal
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Postby kublikhan » Sat 20 Jan 2024, 14:32:08

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', 'Y')ou have to stop living in the past kub, Ford isn't. Why do you think they are drastically scaling back production of the best EV truck in the US, because they think sales are booming? Forget your 5-year old Elon Mush vids for a minute and look at what's actually happening in the EV sphere. Collapsing subsidies, collapsing Charge point companies, it all paints a dire picture.
I already discussed Ford's Lightning above. And my 5 year old Elon Musk vids? Once again you are displaying your ignorance. If you knew anything about my posts, 5 years ago or today, I mostly had negative things to say about Elon Musk. And neither am I exactly crying tears for EV subsidies going away either. I say let them expire. They have been around long enough to boost the nascent EV industry, let them start competing on merits. Sure sales will take a hit, as has happened in Germany when they removed subsidies, but I don't want to see taxpayers funding EVs forever. Maybe throw on higher gasoline taxes instead. Gas taxes in the US are pretty low compared to other countries. Besides, China EV sales still seem to be doing well despite the subsidy cut:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'E')lectric-vehicle sales are seeing continued strength globally with China reporting record monthly sales in October despite the end of subsidies. EV sales in China, the world's largest auto market, increased 29% year-to-date. "What's notable about October's figures is that EV demand in China continues to reach record highs even though the subsidies were cut ... 2023 is set to be another banner year for China in terms of EV sales."
Global EV sales stay strong, China hits record despite end of subsidies

And as for charging companies, are you aware of the rocky start gasoline stations had? They couldn't even put them in cities because they kept blowing up. Then the damn things kept leaking gasoline contaminating the land. Then there is the issue that sometimes pops up of water infiltration into the gas tanks which can damage engines. Which is not nearly as bad as the issue of gasoline contaminating drinking water. Of course in time these issues were solved, mostly. I am not surprised to see technical and financial problems in this new charging business. Will some charging companies go bankrupt? Of course. With this issue kill off the EV? I don't so.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')n around 1910, automobiles were becoming commercially available. With already established relationships with refineries, hardware stores, general stores, and even pharmacies would sell the gasoline needed for combustion engines. Gasoline, a highly flammable liquid, was stored in large above-ground tanks or curbside in 5-gallon tanks. Located in city centers, this large quantity of flammable liquid stored in general and hardware stores would present serious fire risks. After a series of fires and explosions, regulations forced businesses selling gasoline to be moved from city centers to the roadways beyond the cities.
The Evolution of the Gas Pump

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')retty much every gas station built before 1980 is a contamination nightmare. The old technology of buried single-walled steel tanks almost invariably leaked after a few years in the ground. Since gas was so damn cheap before the 1970’s oil crises, it was of little concern to most station owners if they lost a few gallons a day to leaks, presuming they even noticed. It was cheaper to let it happen than to dig the tanks up and replace them. A few gallons a day can, however, add up to a hell of a lot of hydrocarbon in the ground over several years. Then there was the waste oil and solvent disposal methods from the 60s.
What’s with abandoned Gas Stations?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'O')ld gas station sites may become a dime a dozen and be a poor deal at that price. The big whammy comes in the form of environmental assessments something that is becoming more common.

Paul Odom Jr. has a good idea of what kind of real estate nightmare can happen when an environmental assessment is performed. Odom, a major southside developer, has been the proud owner of several commercial sites where gas stations once operated. A few years ago he attempted to lease his property on the northwest corner of SW 89 and Pennsylvania. A client wanted to put an automotive parts store on the site. An environmental assessment of the property was ordered, similar to ordering an appraisal. A professional analysis of the property's environmental condition was delivered.

Twenty five years ago, a Phillips gas station was on the corner. As a result, gasoline contaminated the soil either through tank leakage or Odom thinks from overflows when the tanks were filled. Rules from the Environmental Protection Agency, the state Corporation Commission and the state Water Resources Board now require that such contamination be removed. "If you ever take title to the property, you enter into a chain and become responsible forever," said Odom.

Odom estimates that it took two years from the time the environmental assessment was first performed until the property reached a stage where it could be put back in use. As a result of the time involved, Odom believes that companies looking at locating a new business dismiss a site and look elsewhere once they discover a service station was once located there. Even at a Bargain, Gas Station Sites May Be Bad Buys

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A') gas station in Beverly that has been cited twice in four years is again being accused of selling watered-down gasoline. Multiple consumers have alleged that the Shell station at 9955 S. Western Ave., damaged their vehicles.

Amraen said he was sold watered-down gasoline on May 5. Now a North Side resident, he had visited the local community and was headed home when he purchased gasoline at the station. The next day, he said, his 2012 Volkswagen Jetta, which has a diesel engine and which he purchased about three months ago, wouldn’t start. He had it towed to the dealership, he said, where he was told it had contaminated gas. He said the damage cost about $6,000.

Another person, who lives in Beverly, posted on Facebook that, after visiting the station at about 5 p.m. on May 1, she knew something was “very wrong with our brand-new car” about three hours later. She said the car barely made it the next day to a mechanic, who “was astounded to see this level of water.”

The station was cited by the BACP on Dec. 31, 2015, after underground storage tanks were found to be holding gas that contained water. Eight pumps were red-tagged and not allowed to be used until the BACP approved. O’Shea said the station was also similarly cited in May 2018.
Station accused of water in gas

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')here's been a potentially costly risk found at gas pumps around Minnesota this month. The Minnesota Department of Commerce says there have been multiple reports of water mixed with fuel. Watered-down gas found in Minnesota gas stations leads to costly repairs for local drivers

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]SUMMARY
This report presents the preliminary findings from a study of the statewide occurrence of MTBE and other gasoline constituents in Maine’s drinking water.

Results for Public Water Supplies
MTBE was detected in 125, or 16% of the 793 tested public water supplies.
Toluene was found in 13.1% of public water supplies - higher than seen in private water samples.

USGS reported much higher MTBE detection frequencies for wells located within a quarter mile of a gasoline station (70%). Presence of MTBE and other Gasoline Compounds in Maine’s Drinking Water Supplies
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Postby theluckycountry » Sun 21 Jan 2024, 05:16:24

National Security Experts Raise Alarm Over Biden’s EV Push

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')a Jan. 17 letter to President Biden and Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) Administrator Michael Regan, the group of national security experts said they oppose the Biden administration’s aggressive EV push because Chinese dominance of EV supply chains poses national security risks for the United States.

In particular, regulatory initiatives meant to incentivize EV adoption “intensify America’s vulnerability to political interference by the Chinese Communist Party,” the experts wrote.
https://www.theepochtimes.com/us/nation ... =ZeroHedge

It'll all be over soon.

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We're 17 years past the peak now and the 3rd World is going hungry and dark. We'll be next, we're well on the way in fact.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Postby theluckycountry » Sun 21 Jan 2024, 14:21:40

TWIKE 3 https://www.twike.co.uk/twike-3/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-LegOd8Jxo

This would be a smart transition.
We're 17 years past the peak now and the 3rd World is going hungry and dark. We'll be next, we're well on the way in fact.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Postby jedrider » Mon 22 Jan 2024, 13:07:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', 'T')WIKE 3 https://www.twike.co.uk/twike-3/

This would be a smart transition.


Would save a trip to the gym, too.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Postby Plantagenet » Mon 22 Jan 2024, 15:51:55

The first independent road tests of the new TESLA cybertruck found that its actual range was about 160 miles per charge----just half of the 320 miles per charge that Tesla was claiming.

Image
field testers say the new TESLA cybertruck really looks cool but only gets about 160 miles per charge-

And that huge disparity between Tesla's claims and the reality on the road is not surprising.....Tesla has apparently vastly overstated the range of all their EVs.

This mendacity from Tesla has copied by other EV makers, and it means You have to take ALL the numbers the EV boosters put out there for EVs....range, carbon footprint, sustainability, etc. and then make them worse by 30-50% to approximate reality.

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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Postby jedrider » Mon 22 Jan 2024, 16:48:19

Nice pic of the TESLA "cybertruck." That would have been a great vehicle before the "Bug Apocalypse!"
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Postby theluckycountry » Sun 28 Jan 2024, 10:49:53

Tesla Shares Collapse After Slower Growth in 2024 https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/tesla-sh ... ntent-card

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he electric car market is at risk of collapse due to various factors such as high depreciation, lack of infrastructure, and reluctance from dealers to take them as trade-ins, leading to financial strain for many owners.
https://eightify.app/summary/electric-v ... f-collapse

The Vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P41gc0Q1-k0&t=12s

Electric-car owners told to avoid charging during California heatwave https://www.drive.com.au/news/electric- ... -heatwave/

What a joke, I mean they want to go from 2 or 3% to 100% by 2035 and they can't even charge them now? Can you say BS government lies.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Postby theluckycountry » Mon 29 Jan 2024, 11:54:27

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kublikhan', '
')
And as for charging companies, are you aware of the rocky start gasoline stations had? They couldn't even put them in cities because they kept blowing up. Then the damn things kept leaking gasoline contaminating the land.


Kub, drawing anecdotal parallels to 100 year old systems that were underwritten by ever falling oil prices, oceans of free energy basically, just isn't going to cut it. Today everyone knows that EV aren't underwritten by ever cheaper prices going forward. It's the opposite in fact, they are underwritten by ever higher cost scarcer oil. Can't you see that?

I have been reading your posts and waiting for you to point to something positive that would actually save the EV revolution you are so enamored with. But all you come up with is vague promises by government that they are going to "do" something, or outlandish claims by battery manufacturers that they have cracked the secret code. Meanwhile more and more dark truths about the EV come to light, nails in their coffins as I allude.

You are in damage control all the time kub, like the captain of a mortally wounded war ship, directing the fire control teams as the ship lists further and further to port. At some point you're going to have to give the command, "Abandon ship, abandon ship" I only hope you have the courage and conviction to remain on deck and do just that. My experience of internet threads or forums dedicated to bubbles though tell another story. The accounts of the chief fanboys just go silent as they slip over the side and escape back to reality.
We're 17 years past the peak now and the 3rd World is going hungry and dark. We'll be next, we're well on the way in fact.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Postby kublikhan » Mon 29 Jan 2024, 13:24:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', 'K')ub, drawing anecdotal parallels to 100 year old systems that were underwritten by ever falling oil prices, oceans of free energy basically, just isn't going to cut it. Today everyone knows that EV aren't underwritten by ever cheaper prices going forward. It's the opposite in fact, they are underwritten by ever higher cost scarcer oil. Can't you see that?

I have been reading your posts and waiting for you to point to something positive that would actually save the EV revolution you are so enamored with. But all you come up with is vague promises by government that they are going to "do" something, or outlandish claims by battery manufacturers that they have cracked the secret code. Meanwhile more and more dark truths about the EV come to light, nails in their coffins as I allude.

You are in damage control all the time kub, like the captain of a mortally wounded war ship, directing the fire control teams as the ship lists further and further to port. At some point you're going to have to give the command, "Abandon ship, abandon ship" I only hope you have the courage and conviction to remain on deck and do just that. My experience of internet threads or forums dedicated to bubbles though tell another story. The accounts of the chief fanboys just go silent as they slip over the side and escape back to reality.
Oh is it time for psychoanalysis? Ok I'll bite. Lucky, you have decided long ago EVs are nothing but Segways and there are no facts that will convince you otherwise. I have seen you post information time and time again that is factually incorrect. You are so convinced you are correct you dismiss everything that runs contrary to your opinion out of hand. You pride yourself on the fact you don't have a TV and think yourself immune to the 'brainwashing' that 'little people' with a TV are subjected to. But then you spend all of your time reading and posting from echo chambers that echo back what you already 'know' to be the truth.

And all I do is come up with vague government promises? What a joke. I dismantled the BS you post with actual facts. Shall I list a couple of them?
1. Lucky: EVs have peaked.
Factual Rebuttal: EV sales continue to break records and so have not in fact peaked.

2. Lucky: LiFePO4s will never see mass usage.
Factual Rebuttal: LiFePO4s are already in mass usage.

3. Lucky: Sodium Ion batteries are not in production.
Factual Rebuttal: Sodium Ion batteries are already in production.

4. Lucky: Norwegian EV sales are going down, look at this graph from January sales as proof!
Factual Rebuttal: The cold winter months of January-March are the months that sales of all vehicle types tend to go down. However Norwegian EV sales in January were still higher than a year ago period. And sales came up in the following months just like they always have.

5. Lucky: EVs are not getting better, it's all just outlandish claims and BS from the government.
Factual Rebuttal:
*The average range of electric cars has more than doubled over the last decade

* "The average price of battery packs for cars dropped from $1,200 per kWh in 2010 to just $132 in 2021.

* USA: Average price of a new electric car has fallen by $15,000 in the past year

I could go on but I'll stop here. The point is you are posting bogus information, opinions, and doom projections and presenting it as facts. But it is all false. Hell, you can't even articulate my own opinion on EVs. Sure I correct the BS you post on EVs. But time and time again I have also stated my own issues I have with EVs. However since I do not swallow the BS you post you put me in the category of a vapid fanboy. And you are sitting around waiting for me to post on EVs? Go out and enjoy the sunshine and stop worrying about EVs all the time, seriously.
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