[thorn]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Roy', '
')
But in Europe I think everyone gets at least 4 weeks of vacation. I don't know if that's legislated or not.

[SpaciousDreamer]

....I am a young woman and brand-new to this site. I'd like to address your idea that "women at home have it made,"

1. Housework and childcare are tedious and difficult. Few women like the idea of being an unpaid domestic servant. If it sounds so great to you, try it.

2. In my opinion, too many sheeple follow the LifeScript, and it's gotten us into trouble, especially in regard to PO. College>Marriage>Parent>Death. I thought I'd try to see what else is possible in life.

3. I am an individual, and as such, like the idea of being able to determine my own path. Having your own money is necessary to make choices. I am proud to support myself and would hate having to ask my husband for an allowance. Such an arrangement seems like legalized prostitution to me. However, rearing young children does necessitate a stay-at-home-parent, and that's a sacrifice one partner has to make.

4. I do agree that easy credit, shitty globalization policies, and materialistic lifestyles contribute to the 2-wage earner problem. The apparent necessity of a college education and ensuing debt also has its effect. Because of my financial straits and a lot of other personal reasons, I have made the decision to remain childfree. Children are expensive, and I've never felt like I really need my own DNA replicant. Dependents are also a liability in the emergencies and hardship we are soon to face. Overpopulation is a huge problem that I do not wish to play a part in. Having a tubal ligation is on my short list of preparations to make, along w/ buying a bicycle and learning permaculture. I'll most likely end up adopting PO orphans before the end of this decade, if I survive.

[thorn]

Interesting article on work hours in France:


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/06/27/60II/main704571.shtml

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')
"No, because Americans, I think, believe more in future than French people. We, French people, right now we don’t believe that the future will be better than now," says Maier. "We think that the future will be worse than now, so we don’t have any reason to work."

[spot5050]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Wildwell', 'T')he unleashing of cheap credit has enslaved both partners to now have to go out to work in many cases to maintain a household.

Since the 1950s when women started going out to work and the free availability of credit has meant:

- The rise in ability to purchase cars and multiple cheap foreign holidays, thereby pushing up oil use significantly.
- A noticeable increase in yobbish behaviour and the destruction of the family unit. Crime has risen out of all proportions.
- Initially people could afford a bigger house, but whereas a property could be bought on one person’s wage, the exact same bricks are mortar now requires two. Therefore the family is materially worse off, because it now takes more work to purchase the same item
- People now live beyond their means. Whereas it was shameful to obtain cheap credit to buy items in the 1950s, cash buying is now seen low class and strange. Balance of payments problems have increased through the purchase of cheap foreign goods on credit.
- People now have less quality time at home.
- There has been an increase in depression and suicides as people are unable to keep up with the rat race as cheap credit has put up basic things like property out of many people’s reach. Solitary lifestyles have become more normal increased mobility have led to social problems, obesity, lack of fulfilment. House price rises caused by two partners working and credit have caused more sprawl, accidents, and pollution as people have to commute.

BTW, just in case there is any confusion, this is not an argument for women to be tied to the kitchen sink. Any one of the partners can stop at home!

Just something to think about in our oil use debate! It seems that the inputs of credit and additional labour are the catalyst for oil use rather than being the other way about. The addtional wealth is in fact illusionary in most cases, especially as government is now having to fund the basic costs of living for an ever increasing group.

[cube]

I think the word "enslaved" would be more fitting for an article about S&M instead of economics.

Anyways I fail to see how "cheap credit" is the culprit. That's like argueing cheap food made me fat because I couldn't control myself and I just kept on eating.

I do agree that in some ways this country has gone downhill. However just because back in the "good old days" families were living on a single income that doesn't mean everyhting was all well. People lived more modestly. Houses were smaller. There were less shopping malls. Basically people spent less money. I don't buy the argument that it takes 2 incomes to survive today. A single income is possible if you don't mind spending less.

The advent of 2 income families was not due to economic factors but instead social changes. People's perception of what is valueable in life changed. Basically there were 2 options:
1) live frugal but have more time
2) spend more money but have less time

The nastalgia for the 1950's seems to be based on bad memory more so then anything else.

[Leanan]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')nyways I fail to see how "cheap credit" is the culprit. That's like argueing cheap food made me fat because I couldn't control myself and I just kept on eating.

[rogerhb]

My other half and I survive on one income and have two children. I am astonished at the comments that women say they don't like asking the bread winner for money.

What is the problem? Two parents bringing up kids is a partnership, we have shared bank-accounts and my partner does all the internet banking and paying the bills etc. We both have access to the accounts and can buy the day-to-day items but we both ask each other if we want to buy non-trivial items, funnily enough that is called "budgeting".

Yes, it is tough if you fell the for the line that "you can do anything, (but you need a degree to do it)" and then get saddled with student debts. And young people who don't know what they want to do with their lives are still being fed into the higher-ed-student-debt schemes.

[0mar]

You'd be surprised how much you have when you don't buy shit you don't need.

If we all quit buying fucking worthless trinkets that Corporate America shoves down our throat, we'd have a lot of money.

Basically, my breakdown goes like this:

45% goes to bills/rent/food.
35% goes straight to savings.
20% goes to nights out and stuff.

Anything my girl makes is her own money. I don't plan on fucking this ratio up anytime soon.

Abandon the fucking pursuit of money and live with what you got.

[Wildwell]

Enslaved?

Well, here the minimum wage is about £9k a year.

The mean average wage is about £22k a year, most people are on less that that.

The average house price is £150k approx. Minimum is around £80k, but that’s is less well off parts, in London and most of the South the minimum would be £150k

On the minimum wage you can borrow £27k, you cannot buy. You would need to have a £53k deposit.

If your rent is £400 pm (you’d be lucky to get less than that) for a bedsit, 1/2 bed flat, your council tax is £100, your utility bills are around £75 and food £100 (min) that means you have £50-100 per month to spend other than basics with no savings. That would just about keep you in clothes, might buy you a bike to get to work or a bus fare.

You cannot buy a house as a single person on the average wage (3x22 = 66k).

You would need two people earning 18k a year to buy the cheapest house going, and two people with good jobs to buy the basic average house or minimum house in London. Renting is no cheaper. There’s no choice about this, unless you wish to live on benefits or in a carboard box.

The point is, in the 1950s the average rent was about 1/10 of a wage and a mortgage not much more, that’s some inflation to buy the same bricks and mortar. In the real world, unless you got your mortgage some time ago you need two wages, and rent is the same for a family. There’s no choice about one person going to work anymore, I call that enslaved, an emotive term maybe.

Still we're lucky, in Japan at one point people used to have 100 year mortages with their parents property tied into it.

[SeasonOfPain]

I don't buy the argument that the credit/two-income rat race is primarily a means to live in a good school district. Where I live was once a rural area. Although we're near a small city with a decent school system, where we live is outside this school district; kids here go to school in the small outlying towns.

I just received notice today from our town board that a bunch more farmland is being proposed for development of FOUR HUNDRED new units. Based on all the new construction in our area, they're all going to be enormous, energy-consuming monstrosities on quarter-acre lots. There's no way the current schools will handle them; they'll need to add on and build new schools to accommodate the population.

And guess which childless, anti-population-growth couple will get stuck paying for this.

Time to move... either further out to the country or into the city within walking distance of everything. Everywhere I look out here is McMansion Creep. I swear, humanity is bacteria. Just keep spreading, and spreading, and spreading...

[Denny]

The dual income family has made it tough for volunteer associations too.

Back in the sixties, most dads had spare time in the evening, as "Mom" did all the house chores duing the day, except heavier outside stuff. Now, its not that way. Both mom and dad are tired after work and then they have to attend to the daily routine. Our service group is really affected by it, and the old timers now carry much of the workload, as they did way back when. Its rougher for moms too, as there are so many things like brownies and church groups that are really thin for help. (Sorry if this sounds sexist, I don't mean it that way.)

If you think about life as being a balance, we are off balance for sure. Having some time to put back into the community is a great way to make friends and feel good about yourself, increase your faith, and you get a lot of psychic rewards you don't get from the job.

We were so fortunate that I was able to support the family on one income for the most part. My wife went back to work part-time when our youngest was ten. I had a decent paid job as an engineer, but certainly not spectacular, but we spend carefully. (For our first two kids, we even used the old style cloth diapers, and I was ticked off one time to see a mother on welfare buying Pampers! I guess we were somewhat eccentric.) The only borrowing I did was for the home mortgage. I always thought of interest charges as lost opportunity for my money. A house is an exception as it normally appreciates, unlike everything else of personal use you use borrowed money for.

[PhebaAndThePilgrim]

Good day from Pheba from the Farm:
I just purchased 13 copies of End of Suburbia. I purchased the community action pack. I had planned on selling a few copies, and would like to donate a copy to my library.
I have an acquaintance in the Democratic club in my small town. The friend spread the word about End of Suburbia among fellow Democrats in the club.
A member contacted me via e-mail a few days ago. He wanted to get together a group to view the film.
He e-mailed me back this morning. The e-mail has me upset, and I do not know what I should do.
I really want to spread this message, but I do not think I wish to do it in the manner this person suggested.
The person asked if he could just borrow the dvd I already have and burn himself several copies to spread among friends.
I really want to spread the word, but this man's request gives me a bad feeling. Am I being silly?
First, I paid 28.00 for this first copy, and 185.00 for the other 13 copies.
Second, I thought it was illegal to make copies in this manner. Am I wrong?
I am planning on contacting EOS web-site and seeing if I can do a contact e-mail and ask their opinion.
This just feels wrong. The artists who made this film deserve to be treated with respect. At least that is the way I view it.
I would appreciate input on this.
Pheba From the Farm

"We have forgotten what we were born knowing".
Roderick Macleish, from the novel Prince Ombra

[Daculling]

If you have reservations don't do it. It is illegal and morally questionable. Tell him to go download it off the web if he wants it, stay out of it. Really if he was smart he would have just borrowed it from you and not told you what he was going to do...

[Tyler_JC]

Well, what's more important to you?

A. Being an upstanding moral law-abiding citizen who values responsibility more than friendship (the Inspector Javert type)

B. Spreading the word about Peak Oil because it is more important than copyright laws.

If your moral considerations outweigh your desire to inform the masses about Peak Oil then don't do it.

However, you did purchase 14 copies of the DVD and have already sent more than $200 to the creators of the movie. So if you make a copy or two, it's only cutting the per movie cost. It's not as if you stole a copy off the internet for free without paying the creators anything (like I did).

Additionally, you are not the criminal. You are simply allowing a crime to take place do to your inaction. I put a moral seperation between the two activities in my mind. The Law also makes the seperation. If you loan a copy to someone and they happen to break the law, it isn't exactly your fault.

If you want to take the middle ground, loan the DVD to your friend and tell him not to make copies of it. He can decide to follow your instructions or not.

Or better, have him show the movie to his friends at a movie party or something like that. That is not illegal (I hope!) and it spreads the word.

But whatever floats your boat.

[Hiderow]

Just let him make the copies, they are only copyright laws, spreading the word is more important.

[Daculling]

Let's be careful (I'm guilty too) about using the word illegal, crime or criminal when discussing copywrite issues. Infringing on copywrite is not a crime and does not make you a criminal. It opens you up to legal action by the owner. Think slander, last time I checked it was not "illegal" to slander someone but you might get your ass sued...

This is of course only for the US and once DMCA makes it into the Patriot Act III... well, that's another story.

[Aaron]

If you're a leech by nature, then you will fail to realize that paying for stuff is like voting.

The more votes anything gets, the higher into common awareness that thing becomes.

(Which speaks rather poorly for our culture at large)

So either cast your vote, or don't.

All stealing EOS does is make your vote not count.

[OilyMon]

Aaron makes a good point - if everybody bought their own copy and never shared it with anyone else, there would probably be much more awareness. On the other hand, if I buy a copy (and I did) and make a few copies to give to people who I think may be sympathetic to the issues, and who would never have bought the disc or gone out of their way to see it otherwise, then I feel absolutely no guilt.

If on the otherhand, I buy 1 disc, make 300 copies and start selling them to make a profit, then I feel slimey.

Think of all the oil that went into the making of that movie - the trucks to get equipment around, the manufacturing of the equipment and the celluloid, the manufacture of the amorees and disc themselves, the individual plastic wrap, the ink for the cover and the plane that shipped it to my house - not to mention the oil that I spent to get it, through the performance of my computer job I drive to everyday. Hmmmmmm....something is not adding up here!

<Just some spelling edits!!>

[Specop_007]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Phebagirl', '
') The friend spread the word about End of Suburbia among fellow Democrats in the club.

[Tyler_JC]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Phebagirl', '
') The friend spread the word about End of Suburbia among fellow Democrats in the club.