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Let's Discuss Peak Oil For A Change

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.
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Re: Let's Discuss Peak Oil For A Change

Postby vtsnowedin » Wed 31 Aug 2022, 18:14:57

Actually the press has had a strong bias, one way or the other, from the days of Ben Franklin. Think of the Spanish American war and "remember the Maine" and"you give me the pictures and I'll give you your war". And then there was FDR that was never shown in his wheel chair. Then JFK never questioned about Fiddle and Faddle. In the days where their was one or two local news papers and later just three radio and television networks it was easy to convince the majority that the news presented was the truth.
Now not so much.
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Re: Let's Discuss Peak Oil For A Change

Postby AdamB » Wed 31 Aug 2022, 22:24:52

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '
') Which "competent person" in the White house are you referring to? I can't think of one.


Secretaries of Treasury, Defense, and the Attorney General would seem to qualify. Hard pressed to find others though.
Absolutely not. No , and a thousand times no.


Oh, I didn't mean to imply that you would ever agree, I just listed those who are qualified professionals without regard to their affiliation or fealty to your required preferred brand of demogoguery.
Plant Thu 27 Jul 2023 "Personally I think the IEA is exactly right when they predict peak oil in the 2020s, especially because it matches my own predictions."

Plant Wed 11 Apr 2007 "I think Deffeyes might have nailed it, and we are just past the overall peak in oil production. (Thanksgiving 2005)"
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Re: Let's Discuss Peak Oil For A Change

Postby AdamB » Wed 31 Aug 2022, 22:41:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', 'A')ctually the press has had a strong bias, one way or the other, from the days of Ben Franklin.


Probably true, but "the press" is no more monlithic than the Repubicrat or Democan parties are.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '
') Think of the Spanish American war and "remember the Maine" and"you give me the pictures and I'll give you your war". And then there was FDR that was never shown in his wheel chair. Then JFK never questioned about Fiddle and Faddle. In the days where their was one or two local news papers and later just three radio and television networks it was easy to convince the majority that the news presented was the truth.
Now not so much.


Sure...now, as the nice lady I mentioned early implied, there is no truth because it is all considered to be compromised and can only be viewed through the filter of branding and demogoguery and whatnot. Like when Ronny was sleeping his way through the presidency and pretending to fight communism in central America, or King George 1st couldn't be bothered to know how much milk cost because he really did care about the suckers in America, or King George 2nd took advantage of 9/11 to create a domestic spying organization and start wars all over the place, or Trump not losing the 2020 election. Convincing the majority isn't all that hard when the majority are faith based and guzzle whatever they are spoon fed by their brand's propoganda arms, in the media and otherwise.

Have you written Bernie in protest over him daring to certify the election for Biden in Vermont? :)
Plant Thu 27 Jul 2023 "Personally I think the IEA is exactly right when they predict peak oil in the 2020s, especially because it matches my own predictions."

Plant Wed 11 Apr 2007 "I think Deffeyes might have nailed it, and we are just past the overall peak in oil production. (Thanksgiving 2005)"
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Re: Let's Discuss Peak Oil For A Change

Postby vtsnowedin » Thu 01 Sep 2022, 04:21:15

I had to back track on reading that when I realized you were talking about the Bush presidencies and not the real King Georges. :)
After all I had just referenced the revolution and the Spanish American war.
No point in writing Bernie about anything. He has not changed one of his socialist positions in forty years.
He comes very close to the definition of an Honest politician.
"Once he is bought he stays bought"
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Re: Let's Discuss Peak Oil For A Change

Postby AdamB » Thu 01 Sep 2022, 16:36:19

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', 'I') had to back track on reading that when I realized you were talking about the Bush presidencies and not the real King Georges. :)


Yes, I generally believe that you are historically informed.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '
')No point in writing Bernie about anything. He has not changed one of his socialist positions in forty years.


You haven't organized the local MAGA chapter into sacking the capital in protest of how rigged the elections are in Vermont? RHINO!!!

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '
') He comes very close to the definition of an Honest politician.
"Once he is bought he stays bought"


He meets the definition of a politician. Lips moving, lying, etc etc.

On the plus side, he isn't a seditionist. :) And your neighbors sure seem to love the guy! FEEL THE BERN!!!
Plant Thu 27 Jul 2023 "Personally I think the IEA is exactly right when they predict peak oil in the 2020s, especially because it matches my own predictions."

Plant Wed 11 Apr 2007 "I think Deffeyes might have nailed it, and we are just past the overall peak in oil production. (Thanksgiving 2005)"
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Re: Let's Discuss Peak Oil For A Change

Postby mousepad » Fri 02 Sep 2022, 07:00:21

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', 'i')nto sacking the capital in protest of how rigged the elections are in Vermont? RHINO!!!

Count me in on that. There's way too little sacking happening.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')And your neighbors sure seem to love the guy! FEEL THE BERN!!!

Only the moochers who are hoping for a life paid by somebody else's work.
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Re: Let's Discuss Peak Oil For A Change

Postby vtsnowedin » Fri 02 Sep 2022, 07:20:08

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'Y')ou haven't organized the local MAGA chapter into sacking the capital in protest of how rigged the elections are in Vermont? RHINO!!!

If there any MAGA chapters in Vermont they must be secret groups as I have not heard of one.
I used to be the town's GOP committee treasurer but I have become so discouraged with Vermont's politics that I did not even go to the last organizational caucus.
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Re: Let's Discuss Peak Oil For A Change

Postby AdamB » Fri 02 Sep 2022, 13:22:56

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mousepad', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', 'i')nto sacking the capital in protest of how rigged the elections are in Vermont? RHINO!!!

Count me in on that. There's way too little sacking happening.


I agree!!!! The problem is that sacking capitals by the MAGA folks isn't expressing the disgust most folks have with the government, but disappointment over having been discovered as patriot-fascists, and voters noticed.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mousepad', '
')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')And your neighbors sure seem to love the guy! FEEL THE BERN!!!

Only the moochers who are hoping for a life paid by somebody else's work.


Of COURSE he appeals to the moochers. Just like the figureheads for the other sides appeal to white nationalists and nazi sympathizers, some of the groups yearning for white rich man rule. Again. It worked for the first century of the countries history, right? What time period do YOU think MAGA applies to?
Plant Thu 27 Jul 2023 "Personally I think the IEA is exactly right when they predict peak oil in the 2020s, especially because it matches my own predictions."

Plant Wed 11 Apr 2007 "I think Deffeyes might have nailed it, and we are just past the overall peak in oil production. (Thanksgiving 2005)"
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Re: Let's Discuss Peak Oil For A Change

Postby Doly » Wed 07 Sep 2022, 16:37:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he problem is that sacking capitals by the MAGA folks isn't expressing the disgust most folks have with the government, but disappointment over having been discovered as patriot-fascists, and voters noticed.


I haven't noticed that MAGA folks have sacked any capitals yet. Not saying it can't happen, but what was going on in Jan 6th definitely doesn't count as sacking Washington DC.

And I honestly have no idea what they were trying to express. The whole thing never made the slightest bit of sense to me. They seemed to somehow at the same time have lost faith in elections and agreed that some other, extremely obscure and convoluted process would somehow be an improvement over what they correctly identified as a dubious one. It's as if, after realising that your smartphone is too complicated for you and most of the apps are doing things in the background that you don't understand but you think don't have your best interest at heart, you decide that you must exchange it for another, more complicated one that you understand even less and leaves you with even less control over your stuff.
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Re: Let's Discuss Peak Oil For A Change

Postby Outcast_Searcher » Wed 07 Sep 2022, 16:56:12

So a question to the far right all noise all the time re whining about Biden (no matter what the issue) crowd. If oil prices moderate quite a bit, assuming Ukraine just pushes Russia out in coming months, does Biden get any credit for the benefits of that to the middle class, etc?

Or is it just on to arm waving about the next 18 things Faux News suggests?

And I'm no Biden lover (I'm really pissed at the student loan debt forgiveness package, given its provisions, for example), but I just LOL at the folks who act like Trump is some kind of competent or even serious force for good.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Let's Discuss Peak Oil For A Change

Postby vtsnowedin » Wed 07 Sep 2022, 17:23:54

I'm not a MAGA Trumper or even a Trump voter but can't stand Biden or any of his appointees.
As to the oil price I do not expect it to moderate or stay as low as it is for long. For one thing the withdrawals of a million barrels per day from the SPR have to end soon and that is the primary reason gas has dropped from $5.00 to $3.75 which is still a lot higher then when Biden took office and declared war on the fossil fuel industry.
Then there are the number of drilling permits which has reach historic lows and will soon reduce drill rig count and production in the USA.
Then throw in OPEC's decision to cut production and the sanctions against Russian oil and gas and we will have a world wide shortage soon and that will lead to much higher prices.
Now Ukraine might achieve a quick victory this year and Putin could be over thrown and a new Democratic government replace him and trade relations with Russia return to normal next year but I expect only one of those things will happen and Biden will have little to do with it so will not deserve any credit.
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Re: Let's Discuss Peak Oil For A Change

Postby AdamB » Wed 07 Sep 2022, 18:27:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Doly', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he problem is that sacking capitals by the MAGA folks isn't expressing the disgust most folks have with the government, but disappointment over having been discovered as patriot-fascists, and voters noticed.


I haven't noticed that MAGA folks have sacked any capitals yet. Not saying it can't happen, but what was going on in Jan 6th definitely doesn't count as sacking Washington DC.


Indeed. For such a well armed group, they really are a bunch of loud mouthed blowhards at the end of the day. Tourists in war paint and waving Confederate Battle Flags, good chance that the single shot fired by the authorities kept them in line, the lilly livered cowards.

But to the folks being hunted in the halls? Yeah, I'm betting that to them it sure looked like a sacking!!

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Doly', '
')And I honestly have no idea what they were trying to express. The whole thing never made the slightest bit of sense to me.


Made perfect sense in the moment. And was explained pretty well by all the testimony and events dug up by the January 6 committee folks.
Plant Thu 27 Jul 2023 "Personally I think the IEA is exactly right when they predict peak oil in the 2020s, especially because it matches my own predictions."

Plant Wed 11 Apr 2007 "I think Deffeyes might have nailed it, and we are just past the overall peak in oil production. (Thanksgiving 2005)"
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Re: Let's Discuss Peak Oil For A Change

Postby AdamB » Wed 07 Sep 2022, 18:33:13

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', 'I')'m not a MAGA Trumper or even a Trump voter but can't stand Biden or any of his appointees.


You have given off vibes of RHINO-hood before, 'tis true.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '
') Then throw in OPEC's decision to cut production and the sanctions against Russian oil and gas and we will have a world wide shortage soon and that will lead to much higher prices.


Good thing folks can make choices to dodge that bullet! Oh wait!! Already have!! Woo-Hoo! Let everyone else eat cake!!

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '
') Now Ukraine might achieve a quick victory this year and Putin could be over thrown and a new Democratic government replace him and trade relations with Russia return to normal next year but I expect only one of those things will happen and Biden will have little to do with it so will not deserve any credit.


Unless it happens during his administration. Then, under the "Rules Of Who Gets Credit" (as authored by Vtsnowedin), he will. :)
Plant Thu 27 Jul 2023 "Personally I think the IEA is exactly right when they predict peak oil in the 2020s, especially because it matches my own predictions."

Plant Wed 11 Apr 2007 "I think Deffeyes might have nailed it, and we are just past the overall peak in oil production. (Thanksgiving 2005)"
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Re: Let's Discuss Peak Oil For A Change

Postby vtsnowedin » Wed 07 Sep 2022, 18:51:04

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', '
')
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '
') Now Ukraine might achieve a quick victory this year and Putin could be over thrown and a new Democratic government replace him and trade relations with Russia return to normal next year but I expect only one of those things will happen and Biden will have little to do with it so will not deserve any credit.


Unless it happens during his administration. Then, under the "Rules Of Who Gets Credit" (as authored by Vtsnowedin), he will. :)

I am not too worried about Biden achieving anything positive he deserves credit for.
And if Ukraine scores a decisive victory causing Putin's overthrow the credit will go to Zelensky not Biden.
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Re: Let's Discuss Peak Oil For A Change

Postby AdamB » Wed 07 Sep 2022, 23:20:37

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '
') I am not too worried about Biden achieving anything positive he deserves credit for.


But of course you aren't VT, of course. Unfortunately though, under the "Rules of Who Gets Credit", he already gets credit for dragging us out of the Trump recession. Sorry, but the rules say this one is already in the books, even if he screws the pooch some other dozen ways in the next 2 years. :)

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Vtsnowedin', ' ')
And if Ukraine scores a decisive victory causing Putin's overthrow the credit will go to Zelensky not Biden.


Of course. And Biden will get the credit, under the aforementioned rule book, of having the cajones, foresight and outstanding strategic undertanding to give him the weapons to do it, in quantity, all as part of his greater strategy to show that the Russian bear is far more of a cub than expected. Because...he did...and Zelensky won. If Zelensky loses, then Biden will get credit for having found a safe space to try out new weapons, give the US military a chance to see how a more modern non-nuclear war will be fought (as they are paying attention for sure), and it only cost some $$ to get a headstart on winning the next US war, regardless of when it happens. Such are the way the "Rules of Who Gets Credit" works. Don't you worry though, the next Republicrat gets into office, they will also benefit, or not, from these rules. :)
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Re: Let's Discuss Peak Oil For A Change

Postby Doly » Fri 09 Sep 2022, 17:36:57

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')nd Biden will get the credit, under the aforementioned rule book, of having the cajones, foresight and outstanding strategic undertanding to give him the weapons to do it, in quantity, all as part of his greater strategy to show that the Russian bear is far more of a cub than expected. Because...he did...and Zelensky won. If Zelensky loses, then Biden will get credit for having found a safe space to try out new weapons, give the US military a chance to see how a more modern non-nuclear war will be fought (as they are paying attention for sure), and it only cost some $$ to get a headstart on winning the next US war, regardless of when it happens.


There is another option, though. It could be that Poland and some other Eastern European countries get actively involved in the war, because they already are pretty seriously involved already and domestic politics could drag them into declaring full-out war, and that would mean that NATO gets involved in a war with Russia, which is pretty much the standard definition of WWIII.
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Re: Let's Discuss Peak Oil For A Change

Postby AdamB » Fri 09 Sep 2022, 17:47:38

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Doly', '
')There is another option, though. It could be that Poland and some other Eastern European countries get actively involved in the war, because they already are pretty seriously involved already and domestic politics could drag them into declaring full-out war, and that would mean that NATO gets involved in a war with Russia, which is pretty much the standard definition of WWIII.


And how do you think that might turn out? Russia is a third rate country and third rate economy suffering from the resource curse, and the only reason they are relevant is because of the nuke arsenal left over from the USSR days.

A conventional war against NATO ends only one way, and fast. Ukraine has brought Russia to a halt for crying out loud. Putin ain't Uncle Joe, and Russia ain't the USSR anymore. And Ukraine is staying on its feet against them with but a fraction of what NATO can apply in terms of conventional military force. So sure, call it whatever word you want, but without nukes involved, Russia can't handle NATO any better than Saddam did, most likely.

While I am in no way a supporter of all the wars America has fought in this century, one thing is quite clear. The best military in the history of our species has had PLENTY of practice as of late. And Russia can't even shadow box with a pygmy.
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Re: Let's Discuss Peak Oil For A Change

Postby vtsnowedin » Fri 09 Sep 2022, 20:15:35

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '
') I am not too worried about Biden achieving anything positive he deserves credit for.


But of course you aren't VT, of course. Unfortunately though, under the "Rules of Who Gets Credit", he already gets credit for dragging us out of the Trump recession. Sorry, but the rules say this one is already in the books, even if he screws the pooch some other dozen ways in the next 2 years. :)


Sure, Biden drags us out of the Covid recession (not Trumps) and throws us into nine percent inflation. energy dependence, skyrocketing crime, an open border that brings in enough fentanyl every year to kill every American, Schools that are non functional, and sets the unions in charge of every decision, closes down the fossil fuel industry before any possible replacement is in place and leaves us all in danger of starving to death in our unheated or un air conditioned homes depending on the season or location.
Who could ask for more. ??
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Re: Let's Discuss Peak Oil For A Change

Postby AdamB » Sat 10 Sep 2022, 13:37:08

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '
') Sure, Biden drags us out of the Covid recession (not Trumps)


Sorry but we are applying VT's Rules of Credit and Blame here. Administration in power when events happen gets either.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', ' ')
Who could ask for more. ??


Did you come up with the list knowing that many of those things had been happening for a generation now, under multiple administrations and to various degrees, yet for some reason, you want to assign them to....YOU GUESSED IT....the administration in power?

I'll stop applying your rules when you stop.

I'll give you the inflation part being Biden's issue, although I'm not sure it wouldn't have shown up anyway as both parties were voting for all the spending to attempt to cure The Greatest Recession Since The Great Depression....brought to you by the Trump administration, (VTs Rules of Credit and Blame). So Trump would have gotten the credit for inflation under your rules if he had managed to successfully overthrow the government.
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Re: Let's Discuss Peak Oil For A Change

Postby vtsnowedin » Sat 10 Sep 2022, 13:45:12

The only other time we had 9%+ inflation was under Jimmy Carter, another stupid Democrat.
That was also the time of the first OPEC energy crisis and gas lines.
So no these things have not been going on right along.
But if you like how things are going and that the democrats are getting things done the way you want them to be you go right ahead and mail in your all Democrat ballot. You will cancel me out but just me.
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