[Timo]

"Common sense?" Maybe not.

"Common good?" Actually, quite likely. Humans aren't very adept at group think. We are sheep, and need to be herded collectively in the right directions to prevent us from jumping off the cliff. The U.S.'s bottom-up approach to democracy, where everyone is given an equal voice and the opportunity to make decisions for the common good is turning out quite wonderfully for the planet.

But now, we've grown weary of being responsible for ourselves, and have decided to elect fascists to take control over our lives, thus freeing us from making any decisions regarding our futures.

We get what we deserve, and maybe it's better that way.

[Cid_Yama]

How about some historical perspective. In the 1960's many who could never have afforded college were suddenly able to do so. The then educated young adults saw through the political manipulations and rebelled against it.

TPTB quickly saw that an educated populous was not an easily controlled populous, so the assistance to go to college ceased to keep up with the costs.

Once again only the select were able to attend.

Also, curriculum in public schools was scrutinized and cleansed to produce an uncritical populous, unable to discern what was in their best interests.

So do they deserve their fate? Or have they been conditioned to a fascist mind set.

Yes, they now fight for their chains. Yes, they now fight to enslave any not now within their fold.

So, do they deserve the fate that they fight for? Even though they have been conditioned to do so? Or are they victims of the system.

This is a moral question that I have wrestled with. I guess it doesn't matter as we will all suffer the same fate, righteous and fools alike. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius.

[onlooker]

To me the answer is that fools are less to blame that conniving immoral psychopaths!

[Cog]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Timo', '&')quot;Common sense?" Maybe not.

"Common good?" Actually, quite likely. Humans aren't very adept at group think. We are sheep, and need to be herded collectively in the right directions to prevent us from jumping off the cliff. The U.S.'s bottom-up approach to democracy, where everyone is given an equal voice and the opportunity to make decisions for the common good is turning out quite wonderfully for the planet.

But now, we've grown weary of being responsible for ourselves, and have decided to elect fascists to take control over our lives, thus freeing us from making any decisions regarding our futures.

We get what we deserve, and maybe it's better that way.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cid_Yama', '
')
This is a moral question that I have wrestled with. I guess it doesn't matter as we will all suffer the same fate, righteous and fools alike. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius.

[ennui2]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', 'T')o me the answer is that fools are less to blame that conniving immoral psychopaths!

[onlooker]

The American Indians thriving in the Americans did not seem to have much of a problem with the Commons. So my argument stands, that the high ups are more to blame. As for the blame game mattering well what does anything that we say here really matter. Just stating my views like everyone else.

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', 'T')he American Indians thriving in the Americans did not seem to have much of a problem with the Commons. So my argument stands, that the high ups are more to blame. As for the blame game mattering well what does anything that we say here really matter. Just stating my views like everyone else.

[onlooker]

Tanada, your knowledge in general is impressive especially of history. However, am I truly far off any semblance of accuracy when I say that the Indians of the Americas pre-colonization were living in a fairly sustainable manner for a substantial period of time. If I am patently wrong, my apologies, I must have been daydreaming while in school.

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', 'T')anada, your knowledge in general is impressive especially of history. However, am I truly far off any semblance of accuracy when I say that the Indians of the Americas pre-colonization were living in a fairly sustainable manner for a substantial period of time. If I am patently wrong, my apologies, I must have been daydreaming while in school.

[onlooker]

Tanada, I was wondering if you have any recommendation of any authoritative book of American Indians especially ones in N. America pre colonization. Love to read it. I just have always been attracted to that culture or cultures.

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', 'T')anada, I was wondering if you have any recommendation of any authoritative book of American Indians especially ones in N. America pre colonization. Love to read it. I just have always been attracted to that culture or cultures.

[Timo]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Timo', '&')quot;Common sense?" Maybe not.

"Common good?" Actually, quite likely. Humans aren't very adept at group think. We are sheep, and need to be herded collectively in the right directions to prevent us from jumping off the cliff. The U.S.'s bottom-up approach to democracy, where everyone is given an equal voice and the opportunity to make decisions for the common good is turning out quite wonderfully for the planet.

But now, we've grown weary of being responsible for ourselves, and have decided to elect fascists to take control over our lives, thus freeing us from making any decisions regarding our futures.

We get what we deserve, and maybe it's better that way.

[ennui2]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', 'T')he American Indians thriving in the Americans did not seem to have much of a problem with the Commons.

[Timo]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ennui2', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', 'T')he American Indians thriving in the Americans did not seem to have much of a problem with the Commons.

[onlooker]

Agree with what Timo stated. Ennui, maybe your putting the cart before the donkey. It is precisely the cultures of communities like the Indians which are invaluable because they practiced self control or self regulation. They did not envisage or imagine living like us because it went against their natural and traditional lifestyles and customs. How long have we had prodigious fossil fuel extraction? Maybe one hundred years. Okay so Indians were living sustainably and their ancestors were living sustainable for thousands of years. They did not feel compelled to materially advance their culture or technology that much. Why is that. Because their conscious intention and wish was to live as they had. They seemed content with what they did have. Or else why did they fight so hard to maintain it even in the face of the onslaught of White invasion.

[vox_mundi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', '.').. I was wondering if you have any recommendation of any authoritative book of American Indians especially ones in N. America pre colonization. Love to read it. I just have always been attracted to that culture or cultures.

[onlooker]

Unfortunately, Vox, yes we see humans utilizing Nature to accommodate greater and greater populations. It is a universal feature of humanity. However, I do feel that my thesis of the "noble savage" still has some merit as undomesticated peoples from all past periods and places were less inclined to adopt full scale industrialized and manufacturing technologies and much more content to live relatively simple lives than the great civilizations of the Old world which via the impetus of Capitalistic materialistic dogma quite intentionally embarked upon a full scale industrialized path starting in places like Great Britain. As for Naomo Klein's thesis I would agree. The ethos of Capitalism along with its offspring Industrial Civilization is incompatible with a living and vibrant Earth.

[Ibon]

I read that book 1491. I recommend it.

[vox_mundi]

Here's a different tangent to Ibon's original thesis, without the need to develop a new philosophy ...

Cooperation emerges when groups are small and memories are long, study finds

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ') The tragedy of the commons, a concept described by ecologist Garrett Hardin, paints a grim view of human nature. The theory goes that, if a resource is shared, individuals will act in their own self-interest, but against the interest of the group, by depleting that resource.

Yet examples of cooperation and sharing abound in nature, from human societies down to single-celled bacteria.

In a new paper, published in the journal Scientific Reports, University of Pennsylvania researchers use game theory to demonstrate the complex set of traits that can promote the evolution of cooperation. Their analysis showed that smaller groups in which actors had longer memories of their fellow group members' actions were more likely to evolve cooperative strategies.

The work suggests one possible advantage of the human's powerful memory capacity: it has fed our ability as a society to cooperate.