[Newfie]

Gee, I don't know about all that, maybe!

[Cid_Yama]

I have been accused of a lot of crap over the years.

When I first found out about the coming threat, I thought informing others and helping people through their grief, so that they would be more effective when the time came, was the thing to do. I didn't believe this was a final doom, I figured with preparation some could survive and tried to put myself in a position to help.

But it wasn't to be, it was happening faster and more profoundly than anyone expected. We passed the critical threshold of preventing the methane release from starting, governments didn't act, organized resistance to doing anything developed.

Of course, once the methane started releasing, as well as the thawing of permafrost and the release of other greenhouse gases, we passed another threshold where the biosphere began reinforcing the warming itself, so even if we stopped what we were doing, it was too late.

The game changed. No point in urging action, there was nothing left to do that would prevent it, or even really postpone it for any significant amount of time.

Turned out we knew too little until it was too late. We really would have had to do something decades ago.

But we didn't.

From what we now know, over much of the planet, heat stresses will make survival of humans and livestock impossible for parts of the year, making those places uninhabitable.

Add to that much of the planet encountering water deprivation for parts of the year, most of the planet will be uninhabitable.

The most recent research is predicting 6-10C rises in temperature over most inhabited portions of the planet.

That is not survivable due to heat stresses, plain and simple. Let alone the inability of crop plants to adapt.

This is an Extinction Level Event.

There is no sane person who would want this to happen. But those that can't face the truth of it, accuse others of that.

This IS the end of human civilization. Probably the end of the current biosphere regime.

This ELE is comparable to the Permian-Triassic Extinction event. It took geological timeframes we cannot grasp in our minds to recover.

If that's too much for your mind to handle, that's totally understandable.

But reality is what it is.

I see no problem with others being in denial. It is how people cope. Especially now that there is nothing that can be done. Grasping certain extinction is not an easy thing.

So let those that can't handle it go on their merry way. I wish for most of humanity to live in ignorant bliss. To go on as if the world will continue as it has for generations to come.

There is no need now for others to know. I do not wish the burden of this knowledge on any more shoulders.

But I do want those that want to know to have access to the latest research, to have the knowledge they seek.

That is why I stand against those that would silence the truth if they could.

And Yes, I am certain to such a high percentage, it might as well be absolute.

[Cid_Yama]

Blah, blah, blah. Go on your merry way, pstarr. I wish you only the most benign fantasies of a future for you and yours.

[Lore]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cid_Yama', 'B')lah, blah, blah. Go on your merry way, pstarr. I wish you only the most benign fantasies of a future for you and yours.

[Cid_Yama]

Yes, pstarr, everything will be alright, now go back to sleep.

[ennui2]

Cid, given your beliefs, why do you fall back into the battle of -isms? Communism vs. Capitalism and what not? What's the point? Is it just a way for you to pass the time?

[Timo]

Cid, please don't take this as an insult because it most certainly is not intended to be offensive in any way. My comment on your lengthy post above seems well reasoned, but well reasoned within your own experiences, and are obviously, and self admittedly, not universally shared. Based on your own experiences and observations, you seem to have abandoned the concept, or label, or whatever you want to call it, of being a doomer. Good for you! I mean that. I would only add that reading your post, i think what separates you from the rest of us doomers our here in the etherweb is that you seem to have given up hope for the planet to survive in any meaningful way. That is not a criticism, but just an observation. If you have given up, well, sorry, but i haven't. I speculate that most other doomers also have not given up hope for our future. We all recognize that it will sure as hell be different from today, but what keeps me going on a daily basis is hope, and i will not give that up. I also hope that humanity worldwide does not give up hope for our future. Once you've given up hope for a better future, you're doomed to a self-inflicted prophecy of extinction.

You may very well be right, but i hope not.

[ennui2]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '
')The thing is I want economic doom to happen and offset ecological doom. I want to see folks get out of their cars. In fact I worked my whole life to that end.

[Cid_Yama]

Hope, Timo. And make the best of whatever time you have left, however long that may be.

[Cid_Yama]

Ennui, I believe in a soul that persists and spiritual progression. I am a Christian, in that I agree with and practice in my life the teachings of Christ. Also of any spiritual teachings that emphasize compassion, love, and caring about the well-being of other souls that I meet in my life.

I see a great Evil in this world. By Evil I mean the antithesis to the above.

If there was ever a time to try to enlighten others, it is now. Call it 'saving souls' if you wish.

You may not agree with my methods, but they are mine.

[ennui2]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Timo', 'I')f you have given up, well, sorry, but i haven't. I speculate that most other doomers also have not given up hope for our future.

[ennui2]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '
')Don't be psychoanalyzing me you self-regarding coward.

[AdamB]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ennui2', 'C')id, given your beliefs, why do you fall back into the battle of -isms? Communism vs. Capitalism and what not? What's the point? Is it just a way for you to pass the time?

[Cid_Yama]

That's an incredible fantasy about me. Do you fantasize about me often? Creepy. Am I like your nemesis or something?

Unless you are a sock puppet there is no way you could have any idea about me 'for a long time'.

[AdamB]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cid_Yama', 'H')ope, Timo. And make the best of whatever time you have left, however long that may be.

[Newfie]

CID and Timo,

Just wanted to say I thought that was a nice exchange.

I get both points of view. I hear Cids analysis, I hope there is some flaw to it. But even with a flaw the I think we have other methods of assuring our demise, maybe not as throughly, but good enough.

External events such as a big meteorite strike or a nuclear war may interfere with our narrative. Not nice things to hope for, but such is life.

[AdamB]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cid_Yama', 'T')hat's an incredible fantasy about me. Do you fantasize about me often? Creepy. Am I like your nemesis or something?

Unless you are a sock puppet there is no way you could have any idea about me 'for a long time'.