[Cog]

This would presuppose that everyone in the world is going to wake up tomorrow and declare this is collapse day. Not go to work, just lay there and die. Not going to happen. The idea is ridiculous. Governments change, tyrants rise and falls, empires weaken and fall apart. The people remain pretty much as they always have. Alive and trying to stay that way.

So no, I don't see a global collapse in the cards. If you are trying to define it as we are all going to die sort of thing. Which all too often is where doomers try to take you.

[SeaGypsy]

I mostly agree with all you are saying there Cog, but I read you as quite seasoned with regards to these matters, a different angle to the knee jerk polarity you are here defending, for giggles I would guess. I think where we agree most is peeps jumping up & down screaming are mostly hurting their own voicebox & head while repulsing the bulk of humanity with noise & the stench of hypocrisy. Cool heads, if any, will prevail.

[Cog]

Actually what I am defending is that copious abundance was right about the recovery from the 2007-2009 recession and he was right about peak oil. A rather substantial achievement, in my book, on a board full of fast crash doomers.

Right now I'm watching a potential battle brewing between two doomers, dolanbaker and Cid Yama. Apparently the artic sea ice data that dolanbaker submitted isn't doomie enough for Cid . You have to admit that is something to giggle about. This is what I am talking about when I'm referring to people getting emotionally invested in protecting their doom turf. They have invested so much time and energy into it, they get angry when the facts go against them. I find that rather funny.

[SeaGypsy]

True. I recall when I began posting in early 2009 being influenced by fast crashers but quickly learned here that some of the most knowledgeable people in the world have their doubts, the more astute more measured posters when pressed tended & still do, to be 'slow crashers' & not necessarily bleak about TEOTWAWKI.

Where I get lost with the cornies is the implication that more of the same means more of the same ad infinitum- clearly an adolescent absurdity.
I agree on the entertainment value of the extremes

[ennui2]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'W')onder what happened to all those guys over there who invested so much time into all of this only to be proven wrong a short time later. Maybe they became cornies or just sulked in their basements.

[ennui2]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', '
')Not exactly. Oil is still finite. There is just a lot of it still out there. But predictions about impending doom are always wrong. This also applies to the flavor of the day, global warming. Doomers get emotionally attached to the issue of impending doom and they will defend that idea even when the data doesn't support it. I dropped back and reevaluated my thinking about doom and concluded that I was wrong about a great number of things.

[ralfy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'I')ts a little late to be changing definitions ralfy.

[ralfy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GregT', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'I')ts a little late to be changing definitions ralfy.

[ralfy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'T')his would presuppose that everyone in the world is going to wake up tomorrow and declare this is collapse day. Not go to work, just lay there and die. Not going to happen. The idea is ridiculous. Governments change, tyrants rise and falls, empires weaken and fall apart. The people remain pretty much as they always have. Alive and trying to stay that way.

So no, I don't see a global collapse in the cards. If you are trying to define it as we are all going to die sort of thing. Which all too often is where doomers try to take you.

[ralfy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'A')ctually what I am defending is that copious abundance was right about the recovery from the 2007-2009 recession and he was right about peak oil. A rather substantial achievement, in my book, on a board full of fast crash doomers.

Right now I'm watching a potential battle brewing between two doomers, dolanbaker and Cid Yama. Apparently the artic sea ice data that dolanbaker submitted isn't doomie enough for Cid . You have to admit that is something to giggle about. This is what I am talking about when I'm referring to people getting emotionally invested in protecting their doom turf. They have invested so much time and energy into it, they get angry when the facts go against them. I find that rather funny.

[onlooker]

I would go further on to say that doom or serious problems ahead is the logical and fact based product of much information gleaned from many sources about many interacting trends which point to a collapse scenario. So Ralfy is right, the reaction to this can take many forms but the conclusion of eventual collapse is sound based on the available information interpreted objectively.

[ralfy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'T')rue. I recall when I began posting in early 2009 being influenced by fast crashers but quickly learned here that some of the most knowledgeable people in the world have their doubts, the more astute more measured posters when pressed tended & still do, to be 'slow crashers' & not necessarily bleak about TEOTWAWKI.

Where I get lost with the cornies is the implication that more of the same means more of the same ad infinitum- clearly an adolescent absurdity.
I agree on the entertainment value of the extremes

[GregT]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'A')ctually what I am defending is that copious abundance was right about the recovery from the 2007-2009 recession

[Pops]

Plan for the worst; hope for the best is a difficult lifestyle. Mainly because it could be the bumper sticker slogan of cognitive dissonance. "Let us eat and drink today, tomorrow we die" is a hard prescription for long term consumption. I said way back that a "No Regrets" policy is the moderate path. The example would be rotate a years worth of stuff through a large pantry rather than buy a years worth of ntro packed wheat berries but continue to dine nightly at Taco Bell.

Normalcy and Doom are a subconscious mindset, they exist outside of logic or evidence. I think "Noah syndrome" is a good description for Doomers, not the hoarding aspect necessarily but more because of the way they look at clouds. The Noah POV is just different from that of people with the more typical normalcy bias. From the standpoint of situational awareness, yes, Doomers are more alert: to doom. Typical folks are definitely less on the lookout for the Dots of Destruction.

I don't want to say doomers are more contemplative overall, but I think it is safe to say they do contemplate stuff others don't... like what happens "behind" the light switch for example, and especially what if at some point IT doesn't happen?

True Cornies never consider the light switch, let alone what would happen if IT didn't work. Not saying that's good or bad, they just don't.

It dawns on me how funny it is OF tries to set himself up as a corny. By the definition above he's obviously a doomer. He contemplates the light switch just as much, if not more, than any doomer who ever posted here.
He just whistles a different tune past the graveyard:
"Look! The lights came on again!"


I've always thought the worst situation is to be a Noah at heart but afraid or embarrassed or otherwise prevented from building a boat. A doomer trapped in a corny lifestyle. I think a lot of people who have posted here over the years have found themselves there.

This thread is chock full of situational justification...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hNIX7V21pU

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ennui2', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'W')onder what happened to all those guys over there who invested so much time into all of this only to be proven wrong a short time later. Maybe they became cornies or just sulked in their basements.

[kublikhan]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', 'I')t's amazing to me how successful such people can be at peddling their POV decade after decade. There are THOUSANDS of financial newsletters (now mostly blogs) where self-described "financial experts" peddle their advice, decade after decade. Apparently they're smart enough to tell everyone else what will transpire financially, but not to become financially independent (much less very wealthy) following their own advice. I guess marketing is a powerful thing.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('copious.abundance', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', 'W')ould Copious Abundance venture to share with us why he feels this disdain toward doomers?

[Strummer]

There's nothing fundamentally wrong about Malthus. The population still depends fully on agricultural production and that production still depends on the availability of fertile topsoil, constant input of energy and other resources (nitrates, phosphorus, etc...). In fact today it is much more dependent on those inputs than it was at any time in the past. The fact that we found some more temporarily available sources of those inputs than were known in Malthus' times does not change or invalidate his basic premise in any way.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Strummer', 'T')here's nothing fundamentally wrong about Malthus. The population still depends fully on agricultural production and that production still depends on the availability of fertile topsoil, constant input of energy and other resources (nitrates, phosphorus, etc...). In fact today it is much more dependent on those inputs than it was at any time in the past. The fact that we found some more temporarily available sources of those inputs than were known in Malthus' times does not change or invalidate his basic premise in any way.