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Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Unread postby Sixstrings » Mon 06 Jul 2015, 10:19:38

Yale University petitioned to rename its Calhoun College, named for John C. Calhoun, even though he died before the civil war:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')onfederate controversy heads north to Yale and John C. Calhoun

The latest target: John C. Calhoun, U.S. senator from South Carolina and vice president under Presidents John Quincy Adams and Andrew Jackson. Calhoun’s name adorns a residential college at Yale University. And though the Confederacy didn’t exactly capture the imagination of New Haven, Conn., — and Calhoun, who died in 1850, didn’t serve among the men in gray — some want his name off.

“Like the official display of the Confederate flag in South Carolina, Calhoun College represents an indifference to centuries of pain and suffering among the black population,” a petition circulating online for Yale students and alumni reads. “It conveys disrespect toward black perspectives, and serves a barrier toward racial inclusiveness. Calhoun College will always preclude minority students from feeling truly at home at Yale.”

Do not doubt: Calhoun was indeed a racist.

...

But is extending the “de-Confederatization” of the United States to those who lived and died before the Civil War necessary? Some think so.

“John C. Calhoun, for whom the college is named, was respected during his time as an extraordinary American statesman,” the petition read. “But he was also one of the most prolific defenders of slavery and white supremacy in American history. At a time when many of his southern colleagues viewed slavery as a necessary evil, Calhoun infamously defended the institution as ‘a positive good.’ His legacy is built on his vociferous defense of a state’s right to enslave blacks.”

More than 1,200 people had signed the petition by early Monday. For its part, Yale welcomed the debate.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/07/06/confederate-controversy-heads-north-to-yale-and-john-c-calhoun/
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Unread postby dinopello » Mon 06 Jul 2015, 17:03:22

Be honest, how many of you are considering a rebel tattoo now? Stamp your heritage on your head

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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Unread postby Pops » Mon 06 Jul 2015, 17:16:42

No way, I'm gonna do what this patriot did with his head...

http://news.yahoo.com/police-man-shoots ... 37499.html
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Unread postby Plantagenet » Tue 07 Jul 2015, 18:54:13

Liberals are now proposing tearing down the Jefferson memorial in Washington DC because Jefferson was a slave-owner. Other liberals are proposing that the names of Washington State and Washington DC are racist and offensive, because George Washington was a slaveholder.

Personally, I hope liberals succeed in getting the name of Washington DC changed. And I've got the perfect replacement.

Lets re-name Washington DC as OBAMAVILLE to honor President Obama!

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Instead of honoring that nasty old slaveholder George Washington, lets change the name of Washington DC to "Obamaville"!
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Unread postby Sixstrings » Thu 09 Jul 2015, 04:00:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'L')iberals are now proposing tearing down the Jefferson memorial in Washington DC because Jefferson was a slave-owner. Other liberals are proposing that the names of Washington State and Washington DC are racist and offensive, because George Washington was a slaveholder.


So what ya sayin' there Plant, that I was right?

That it starts with banning / burning confederate flags and then it's on to burning American flags?

That it starts with harmless war veterans' obelisks and then next thing you know it's the Jefferson Memorial?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')NN Host Asks If Jefferson Memorial Is Equal With Confederate Flag

"Jefferson owned slaves," Banfield said, noting that a previous guest had made a "good point" in bringing that up. "Thomas Jefferson owned slaves -- third president of the United States. And there is a monument to him in the capital city of the United States. No one ever asks for that to come down. Is it equal [to the Confederate flag]?"

Lemon shot down the comparison.

"No, I don't think it's equal, because Jefferson was a figure who was part of the entire United States, not just the South," he said. "There may come a day when we want to rethink Jefferson. I don't know if we should do that, but when we get to that point, I'll be happy to partake in that particular discussion. But right now I don't think the two are equal."

Pointing to every racist moment in U.S. history as if it were equal to ongoing acceptance of the Confederate flag is not appropriate right now, Lemon continued.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/24/conferderate-flag-jefferson_n_7656316.html


So there ya go, he says it's going too far to talk about the Jefferson Memorial "right now" but that "there will come a day" for that.

Guys -- this is the worst kind of socialist communism, it's very bad stuff. I'm on the Bernie bandwagon, we need to do MORE for the 99% in this country. But there are limits to that. Because the far extreme of the far left are anarchists, they really would tear everything down, with their Peoples' Committees and direct democracy groups with the hand signals and chants and all that stuff.

America is about all our history, and the CNN anchor is wrong -- Southern history WAS and IS *AMERICAN* history too, there is no distinction that Thomas Jefferson is American history yet the confederacy was not. For one thing -- all those confederate generals and officers were great AMERICAN military leaders, with stellar records and an entire AMERICAN history, *before* north and south had a civil war.

Robert E. Lee was an AMERICAN hero of the mexican-american war, he's an institution in the AMERICAN military institution and west point and our history. Lee was winfield scott's right hand man all through that war, the campaign in Mexico. Where our very Marine Corps anthem comes from.

I guess that all has to go too, right? That will be next, right? We'll have to pay reparations to Mexico, right? And then we'll have to revisit native american issues all over again and rip off all those scabs again do an entire cleansing of Custer and wild west history too, right?

We can't have anything AMERICAN, it's all gotta be torn down, that's what the noam chomsky anarchists say, right?

The cleansing of history stuff is the WORST kind of socialist communism, it really is mao / lenin little red book insanity. I have never thrown that label around before, but I see it happening, so I'm sayin' it now.

University of Maryland professor says all copies of the US Constitution should be "censored" and "modernized" so that offensive words and things in it do not appear anymore (he's talking about the slavery things, that were turned over by constitutional amendment, so what he is saying is to literally censor out offensive things in the Constitution, to "modernize" it so that nobody can look at the Constitution and see anything offensive):

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]Academic: Constitution Is ‘Confederate Symbol,’ Censor It

“South Carolina’s battle flag may soon come down from the capitol flagpole, but other symbols of the Confederacy’s ideology remain in place,” writes political scientist and former University of Maryland professor Henry Bain in an editorial that has appeared in several newspapers around the country. “For example, consider the U. S. Constitution.”

Bain isn’t calling for the creation of a new Constitution, but rather says the current one should simply be edited to remove parts he considers immoral and outdated.

“All copies of the Constitution promulgate detailed instructions for the recapture of slaves who have run away from their owners,” he says. “They also specify that slaves are to be counted as three-fifths of a person in the Census, giving a boost to the slave-owning states in the House of Representatives and the Electoral College.”

Bain is referring, of course, to the parts of the Constitution which reflect the fact slavery was legal until after the Civil War, when the Thirteenth, Fourteenth, and Fifteenth Amendments were ratified. Slavery isn’t his only problem, as he believes in removing any other text that references “embarrassing” parts of American history, like Prohibition.

Modern copies of the Constitution (such as that at Archive.gov) typically show the text as it originally was, while also including a note that such clauses have been superseded by later amendments. That may seem reasonable, but Bain says that kind of approach is the reason nine people found themselves brutally gunned down in Charleston.

“One might justify this presentation of our national charter by saying that it commemorates an earlier time or instructs students on the nation’s political history,” says Bain. “That kind of thinking has prevailed for a long time in Charleston, only recently yielding in the face of an atrocity.”

And so, Bain says, the Constitution needs to be “reorganiz[ed]” to suit the modern era, with offensive text excised and moved to a separate back section, “where it belongs.”
http://dailycaller.com/2015/07/07/academic-constitution-is-confederate-symbol-censor-it/


I just hope this "thing" goes away -- that city councils and government and the moderate middle doesn't let a PC "cleanse our history" wave go too far. We're supposed to be UNDERSTANDING our history -- our GOOD and our BAD -- and for goodness sake, people right now have GOOD and BAD to them. And leftists sometimes do bad things too, and take away rights, and oppress people.

The big massive PC ban hammer thing, I just don't like it.

Next thing you know, it will be climate change skeptic jails.

Inquisitions, witch hunts, flags banned from sale, civil war strategy games banned from sale, book burnings and the fear with the PC thing is that the only acceptable view and speech and culture is the PC mob groupthink speech and culture.

The Far Left is actually getting everything it said it wanted, but it's looking like that's not good enough, they want to dig up sh*t from centuries past on top of it all, and regulate what everyone can and can't say and start censoring free speech everywhere and even censoring history! And they are NOT TOLERANT of dissent, and that's concerning, and fundamentally un-American.
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Unread postby Sixstrings » Thu 09 Jul 2015, 04:33:12

Here's an interview with Bernie Sanders, where the journalist is trying to push Bernie to going even farther left, about further apologies for slavery. Bernie has a very reasonable response but just listen to it, the interviewer isn't happy with it and says "well is that a yes or a no?"

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')enator Bernie Sanders responds to apology for slavery
https://soundcloud.com/joemadisontheblackeagle/senator-bernie-sanders-responds-to-apology-for-slavery


Fact is, Bernie Sanders USED to be a way too far left noam chomsky radical type, but he's not like that anymore.

If he winds up leading a new socialism in America, I sure hope he continues how he is and leads people the right way and keeps the extreme far left from going too far.

edit: rest of that interview, the other clips, is a good interview. That "apologize for slavery" question was unfair I think, I doubt that interviewer would have asked Hillary that question.

And just to note -- these crazy things, like a professor calling to censor the US Constitution, people talking about the Jefferson Memorial, or anyone calling for slavery reparations.. that's really FAR LEFT stuff. It's not a "black folks" thing. I've never known nor met a black person that would agree with these crazy things.

It's OKAY to be against extreme far left things, and that does not make one a bigot. Whereas a bigot will look at some of these things, and then just apply those views to ALL black folks. When even confederate history polls show that 2/3 of black folks don't even think street names should be changed.

You guys get what I'm saying? I don't want to be saying anything that encourages any bigots or racists.

Because it's not even a race thing. It's actually an extreme far left thing, they're just nuts, and it's not right to give a "politically correct" mandate to all EXTREME unvieristy professor leftist views. Where it becomes "if you don't agree with the extreme far left then you're a bigot."

I mean goodness, just personally, I actually agree with 3/4 of american progressive ideas on some things that could help everyone -- when it's NOT just gov check plantations, if you want to start doing something on trade and get at real root issues then I'm on board with that -- and on social stuff, I'm 100% all for gay marriage and transgender. Those are MORE rights for MORE people that don't effect OTHERS' rights.

I only get jumpy on this far left liberal bandwagon when they start talking about climate change skeptic jails, and when they start wanting to tear down war veteran monuments and the Jefferson Memorial and things like flags and civil war strategy games are getting banned and it gets off into Stalin and Lenin stuff, Jesus. 8O
Last edited by Sixstrings on Thu 09 Jul 2015, 05:47:04, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Unread postby Cog » Thu 09 Jul 2015, 04:39:31

If you want to know where this obliteration of history goes:

“He who controls the past controls the future. He who controls the present controls the past.”
― George Orwell, 1984
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Unread postby Sixstrings » Thu 09 Jul 2015, 06:47:51

Truly remarkable speech:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S').C. Rep Jenny Anderson Horne Makes Emotional Confederate Flag Debate
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5RazQHulp4


I'm not sure what the news said, I think I saw that the south carolina house voted in line with the senate to take the flag down.

Here's the only issue though guys, it's the slippery slope -- everyone in this thread is aware of it. If somebody ever misused an American flag -- of course our hearts would break, and the US flag has been misused before, and the Christian cross has as well, and the koran and guns.

But that doesn't mean that the American flag should be banned, or the cross, or the koran, or guns.

Anyways -- I said from the start that the flag should come down at any capitols. But as everyone in this thread knows, the debate has actually moved on, and now we're talking about the Jefferson Memorial in DC. And it moved on from flags very early, to veterans' memorials.

My issues in this thread have been very consistent -- the #1 civil liberties red flag was corporate america banning a "flag." And then Apple banned civil war strategy games on the iphone. The 1st amendment and free speech should matter to ALL Americans. It's extremely important, a hell of a lot more important than just my state's history and just the fact that we have historical sites not only about the confederate years but also the Spanish conquistadors as well. And cowboys, and native americans and indian mounds, and all of it. Nothing is banned.

So it's good they took the flag down, but the thing is, the new issue is the preservation of history itself, and monuments and even some saying the US Constitution must be censored and offensive things taken out of any print editions of the Constitution.

All I care about is that my town's war veterans' obelisk should stay where it is, where it's been for 120 years, and that there should be more museums and more exhibits about history -- but don't shut existing historical sites down, don't come after civil war renactor hobbyists -- there's like a MILLION of those in the US, north and south and west -- and then history buffs, you simply cannot erase a massive chunk of the nation's history, you just can't.

You can't tell motorcycle bikers they can't have a rebel flag, you can't tell a retired couple that either with their flag on the rv at nascar, you can't take the flags away from "rednecks." You have to judge people individually, that is the American way.

If anyone wonders what my view of the civil war is, it's just history, watch Ken Burns' "The Civil War" and that's how I think it should be presented -- and certainly not banned.
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Unread postby Sixstrings » Thu 09 Jul 2015, 08:02:53

Marion County (Ocala) Florida, county commission votes to put the flag back up (with a plaque that describes the historical significance to the region):

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')onfederate flag returns in Ocala — to 'educate the community'

OCALA — As lawmakers in South Carolina consider removing the Confederate flag from the Statehouse grounds, a north Florida county has decided to do the opposite.

The Marion County Commission voted Tuesday unanimously to again fly the Confederate flag in front of a government building, weeks after it had been taken down.

The interim county administrator had removed the flag at the McPherson Governmental Complex in Ocala, joining other communities across the South and nationwide that took down or reconsidered Confederate symbols..

The Ocala Star-Banner reports that several citizens spoke in favor of restoring the flag.

Ocala resident John Horrighs said removing the flag was "bowing to political correctness."

Commissioners say it'll be flown with a display explaining its historical significance.

"What I realized is that we have not done justice to the historical display," commission Chairman Stan McClain said at Tuesday's meeting, according to the Star-Banner. "I'm sure most folks are in favor of educating the community."

The Marion County Historical Commission will be tapped to create an outdoor museum about the flags flown on the property.

"This will help identify opportunities for connectivity and education about local history within the complex grounds," the commission said in a statement later Tuesday.
http://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/stateroundup/florida-county-votes-to-fly-confederate-flag-once-again/2236536


I do agree with what south carolina did, I said that from the start -- that it was not the flag's fault, and that there actually IS NOT a violent racist crisis in America right now (even if one thinks there is, then what do you do about racism and bigotry up North? What flag can you take, up there?).

There's very little racism at all these days, some police brutality has been an issue but other than that I don't see any racism anywhere. That thing in Charleston was an aberration. You can't go and punish everyone at nascar with their RV, over that. You can't ban civil war strategy games on the iphone, over that. You can't burn books, you can't ban flags.

So yeah -- I agreed south carolina should have done taken it down, and they did, and the only thing I've been talking about since is where the whole debate moved way overboard beyond the flag in charleston. About veterans' monuments, all monuments in general, historical sites, museums, the Jefferson Memorial in DC and crazy extremes like censoring the Constitution.

About the flag itself -- as a voter, I would be for preserving historical sites and museums and old forts and national parks and all of that.

And then, as a voter, I think it would be okay if they flew the confederate flag if they also fly all the other flags that ever flew over the historical site, in my state that means the British union jack and also the Spanish empire flag. That's just history.

And at government buildings.. if people in the area are offended, then I wouldn't care if the confederate flag is not flown, but if most people want it flown then I would agree with that too. Like Ocala is doing, making an outdoor museum and the flags have plaques just talking about history. But I'd never complain about it, the MAIN THING is that ebay won't let antique collectors trade, that civil war strategy games got banned, all this crap going on with NASCAR, and personal individual liberties being so infringed upon.

And then on public grounds, the monuments are #1, me as a voter I'd definitely vote for not touching those. And people in other states and cities have a different history, every state in the South has its own history, maybe people in other states need to do something different and it's up to them.
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Unread postby Sixstrings » Thu 09 Jul 2015, 08:45:12

This article says all the public comment was in favor of putting the flag back up, not one person came to say it should stay down:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'F')lorida county removes Confederate flag, flies it again after public outcry

Channel 9's Myrt Price was inside Tuesday's meeting and heard why people felt disrespected when county leaders took the flag down.

...

"I think this is the wrong move on behalf of whoever decided to do this," one resident said.

>> Read more trending stories

Residents told the commission that for them, the flag is all about their heritage and has nothing to do with hate.

"It's not about slavery, it's about honor and pride," another resident said.

"That flag is a symbol of my heritage, a symbol of where I come from, the South," said resident David Stone. "I want to see that beautiful flag put back on the flag pole where it belongs."

After hearing all of the public comments about the issue, Commissioner Stan McClain discussed a plan to make a historical display along a walking trail for all of the flags that at one time flew over the state of Florida.

Later, the commission voted unanimously to put the Confederate flag back.

"It's a passionate issue on both sides," said McClain. "What we're trying to do is interpret the historical relevance of this display we have. It's either take the whole thing down or use it as an educational tool."

County leaders said while they work out the details for the trail, the flag will keep flying.

There was no one at the meeting Tuesday who spoke in support of removing the flag.

Image
http://www.ajc.com/news/news/national/marion-county-commissioners-bring-back-confederate/nms7G/


Again, my only issues are: civil liberties, flag banned on ebay. Then civil war strategy games. NASCAR ban. Dukes of Hazzard banned, on tv (what's next, the PBS civil war documentaries? Gone with the Wind?).

Then talk of pressure on civil war rennactments (if it's not your thing then it's not your thing, but a lot of people enjoy them and it's a big event and it's like a medieval fair kind of thing and a lot of people like to go to them).

And most of all, 120 year old veterans' monuments and museums and historical sites. More history, not less, never tear down history -- add to it, if anything. I'd sooner vote for a tax increase to build MORE museums and historical preservation sites and parks, before I'd be for tearing down what we have.
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Unread postby Sixstrings » Thu 09 Jul 2015, 11:34:32

Just some things about flags in Florida.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')panish period[edit]

Spain was a dynastic union and federation of kingdoms when Juan Ponce de León claimed Florida on April 2, 1513. Several banners or standards were used during the first period of Spanish settlement and governance in Florida, such as the royal standard of the Crown of Castile in Pensacola[2] and the Cross of Burgundy in St. Augustine. As with other Spanish territories, the Burgundian saltire was generally used in Florida to represent collective Spanish sovereignty between 1513 and 1821.[3]

In 1763, Spain passed control of Florida to Great Britain via the Treaty of Paris. Britain used the original union flag with the white diagonal stripes in Florida during this brief period. The British also divided the Florida territory into East Florida, with its capital at St. Augustine, and West Florida, with its capital at Pensacola.

Spain regained control of Florida in 1783. In 1785, King Charles III chose a new naval and battle flag for Spain, which was now a more centralized nation-state, and its territories. This flag, a tri-band of red-gold-red, was used along with the Burgundian saltire in the provinces of East and West Florida until 1821, when the Florida provinces joined the United States.

American Civil War[edit]
Between 1821 and 1861, Florida had no official flag. The Lone Star and Stripes, previously the Naval Ensign of Texas, was used as a provisional flag between 1861 and 1868, after Florida seceded from the Union and declared itself a "sovereign and independent nation".[4] This flag was also used when Floridian forces took control of the federal forts and a navy yard in Pensacola. Col. William H. Chase was Commander of Floridian troops and the flag is also referred to as the Chase Flag. Later in the year the Florida Legislature passed a law authorizing Governor Perry to design an official flag. His design was the tri-band of the Confederacy but with the blue field extending all the way down and the new seal of Florida within the blue field.

As part of the Confederacy, Florida used all three versions of the Confederate flag and the Bonnie Blue Flag, which was briefly used as an unofficial flag of the Confederacy. The Bonnie Blue flag features a single five-point star centered in a blue background. It was used as the flag of the short-lived Republic of West Florida in 1810, which included parts of modern-day Alabama, Mississippi and Louisiana.

Between 1868 and 1900, the flag of Florida was simply the state seal on a white background. In a discrepancy, however, a later version of the state seal depicts a steamboat with a white flag that includes a red saltire, similar to Florida's current flag. In the late 1890s, Governor Francis P. Fleming, a nationalist, advocated that St. Andrew's Cross be added so that it would not appear to be a white flag of truce hanging still on a flagpole. Floridians approved the addition of St. Andrew's Cross by popular referendum in 1900.[5] The red saltire of the Cross of Burgundy represents the cross on which St. Andrew was crucified, and the standard can be frequently seen in Florida's historic settlements, such as St. Augustine, today.[6]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Florida


So Florida had all the iterations over time, of the Crown of Castile and Spanish flags:

Image

Then secession from spain flag, west florida:

Image

Then the flag during the confederacy years, with the new state seal and confederate tri band:

Image

Then the post civil war, Reconstruction flag:

Image

Then somebody said that looks like a surrender flag and it shouldn't be all white, so they added the cross of saint andrew and the new seal that has the colors of the Spanish flag:

Image

And that was passsed by state referendum of all the voters, in 1900. St. Andrew's cross (and I have no idea what significance saint andrew is, if he was some racist in europe then someone go ahead and tell me), is also the basis for the confederate battle flag and the flag of Scotland:

Image

And also the Russian navy ensign, which looks exactly like the confederate battle flag but without the stars (and is now also the flag of east ukraine):

Image

By the way, the Supreme Court ruled ruled in June that states can deny confederate license plates (along with "choose life" or anything else, it's all up to the state, they can pick and choose what groups). This was a 5-4 decision:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')upreme Court says states can block Confederate flag license plates

Four justices, led by Samuel Alito, would have allowed the Confederate license plate and blocked states from refusing messages they find objectionable.

"The court's decision passes off private speech as government speech and, in doing so, establishes a precedent that threatens private speech that government finds displeasing," their dissent said.

"Specialty plates may seem innocuous," Alito added. "They make motorists happy, and they put money in a state's coffers. But the precedent this case sets is dangerous."

To illustrate his point, Alito imagined sitting along a Texas highway and seeing more than 350 specialty plates whiz by -- plates honoring colleges and universities, fraternities and sororities, even "a favorite soft drink, a favorite burger restaurant, and a favorite NASCAR driver."

"Would you really think that the sentiments reflected in these specialty plates are the views of the State of Texas and not those of the owners of the cars?" he said.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/06/18/supreme-court-license-plates/27605915/


I'd disagree with the majority opinion -- either the state should have no special group license plates at all, or if the state is going to pick and choose among groups then there should be more leeway for political / free speech. Example, wouldn't be cool for a Democratic-dominated state to deny a GOP license plate, or let's say a state out west wanted to deny a Mexican heritage license plate.

Really -- there ought to be some kind of supreme court case about ebay and apple. When a company is an effective monopoly, as ebay is and as apple is with its app store -- when corporations actually have more control than government -- then what about free speech?

Ebay is THE common national marketplace, for antiques and americana and everything. Then amazon is actually #1, for new products, and then walmart is the top retailer. All three of them banned the confederate flag.

What about free speech, when corporations have a monopoly on the marketplace of goods? When there's no other way, to sell a civil war strategy game (except on something like Steam or the apple store or google store)?

What if Google started banning things? They own youtube, control all of the internet just about, what can be searched and what can't be searched etc.?

There are real civil liberties concerns, with all this stuff. Once we start getting into banning books, flags, media, and speech in America.
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Unread postby Plantagenet » Thu 09 Jul 2015, 12:44:52

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '
')There are real civil liberties concerns, with all this stuff. Once we start getting into banning books, flags, media, and speech in America.


Its too late. That horse is out of the barn. Civil rights is now a "super-right" and is more important than freedom of speech or civil liberties.

AND just wait until President Hillary appoints three more liberal Supreme Court justices. It won't be long until the Ds will make everybody "equal" in their usual fashion, i.e. by banning all offensive speech and all offensive flags or pictures, making everyone by making everyone eligible for affirmative action, putting everyone on welfare, moving everybody into public housing, and requiring everyone to buy obamacare.

-------------------------

And by the way---the Spanish were evil slaveholders and stole all the Indian land so all those interesting Spanish flags you show above will have to be banned.
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Unread postby Sixstrings » Thu 09 Jul 2015, 14:15:50

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'C')ivil rights is now a "super-right" and is more important than freedom of speech or civil liberties.


Here's the thing though -- the right to not be offended is actually not a civil right.

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(a harmless retired couple at nascar with a rebel flag on their RV, is not even "foolish speech" but in that quote winston churchill is even defending foolish speech, and it used to be in America that people would even defend the right to intentionally offend -- it's essential to all art, protest, and comedians for that matter.)

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')ND just wait until President Hillary appoints three more liberal Supreme Court justices. It won't be long until the Ds will make everybody "equal" in their usual fashion, i.e. by banning all offensive speech and all offensive flags or pictures, making everyone by making everyone eligible for affirmative action, putting everyone on welfare, moving everybody into public housing, and requiring everyone to buy obamacare.


On the news right now:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]Democrats demanded Thursday that Congress rip down any state flag displayed by the U.S. Capitol that includes the Confederate battle emblem, sparking a bitter battle with Republicans who have been sent reeling by the flag debate.

Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi proposed the change, offering a special resolution directing House Speaker John A. Boehner to prohibit flags except for those in the offices of individual members. Depending on how it is construed, it could affect the flags of a handful of southern states whose current emblems in some way commemorate the battle flag.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jul/9/nancy-pelosi-take-down-southern-flags-confederate-/


The sh*tty thing is that I would agree that yes, it's time for the last of the states to change their flags -- but you can't force them, like this.

The Left and the Left wing media are pulling a real shrewd political move here, the media ARE LIKE ACTIVISTS AND NOT JOURNALISTS anymore. They're just flat-out activists.

And Nancy Pelosi and Democrats are RIDING IT.

I think many people in the moderate middle will chafe at this political correctness gone overboard. It's not even about the darn flag, it's about the PC stuff and left wing being intolerant.
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Unread postby Sixstrings » Thu 09 Jul 2015, 14:55:14

I like what Jim Webb has to say:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '2')016 candidate Jim Webb talks Confederate flag, ethics of super PACs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWHlFZkpR-0


John Boehner to create bi-partisan committee to review confederate symbols in the federal government, Democrats rebuff his compromise and re-introduce a bill calling for Mississippi’s flag be to be removed from the US capitol, now Boehner is angry that Pelosi "pulled a cheap political stunt:"

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')oehner wants review of Confederate symbols in U.S. Capitol

The battle over the Confederate flag landed with ferocity Thursday in the U.S. Capitol amid an unexpected debate on the display of the southern “Battle Flag” in federal cemeteries for veterans.

House Democrats accused Republicans of catering to the large bloc of southern conservatives in initially promoting an amendment that some viewed as pro-Confederate.

...

Boehner also sidelined legislation that would provide annual funds for the Interior Department after Southern lawmakers pushed to get a vote that would allow for brief displays and sales of the flag in national cemeteries.

Boehner said the working group of Democrats and Republicans would have a broad mandate to review all issues related to Confederate symbols and then make bipartisan recommendations for the full Congress to consider.

“Listen, we all witnessed the people of Charleston and the people of South Carolina come together in a respectful way to deal with, frankly, what was a very horrific crime and a difficult issue with the Confederate flag,” Boehner said Thursday at his weekly news conference. “I actually think it’s time for some adults here in the Congress to actually sit down and have a conversation about how to address this issue. I do not want this to become some political football.”

...

Democrats responded by re-introducing a resolutions that would have mandated the removal of Mississippi’s state flag from display on U.S. Capitol grounds, because it displays the Confederate “Battle Flag.” That resolution, offered by House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), was tabled on a mostly partisan vote that referred it to a committee.

Those Democratic moves left Boehner angry over what he saw as the rejection of his attempt to defuse the issue. “The Speaker offered a thoughtful and responsible way to address this issue and Pelosi responded with a cheap political stunt,” Kevin Smith, Boehner’s spokesman, said.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/boehner-wants-review-of-confederate-symbols-in-us-capitol/2015/07/09/ddbe6fba-264a-11e5-b72c-2b7d516e1e0e_story.html
Last edited by Sixstrings on Thu 09 Jul 2015, 15:27:13, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Unread postby Plantagenet » Thu 09 Jul 2015, 15:12:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'I') like what Jim Webb has to say:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '2')016 candidate Jim Webb talks Confederate flag, ethics of super PACs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWHlFZkpR-0


^ Now there's an ADULT in the room.


Yup.

But the Ds have no interest in Webb's ADULT thinking these days. They'd much rather hear Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Nancy Pelosi, and Barack Obama demagogue about the evil confederate flag, or Hillary lie about how smart she was to route her top secret state dept. communications through a PC jr. in her home basement.

The proof of that is that Hillary is 50+ points ahead of Webb in the D polls
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Unread postby Sixstrings » Thu 09 Jul 2015, 16:01:54

This sh*t has gotten BEYOND insane.

State legislature in Oregon arguing and divided about removing the Mississippi state flag from outside Oregon's capitol:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')onfederate imagery in Oregon: 38 House members sign letter demanding Mississippi flag's removal

SALEM — After the demise of a late-breaking bill demanding the removal of Mississippi's Confederate-marked flag from outside Oregon's Capitol, lawmakers have shifted tactics — getting dozens of colleagues to sign a letter urging state officials to act without legislation in place.
http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2015/07/confederate_imagery_in_oregon_4.html


Governor of Maryland says the political correctness has gone too far, asks "when will it stop?:"

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')aryland Gov. Larry Hogan says he supports the removal of some Confederate symbols, but extreme measures represent "political correctness run amok."

"Where do we draw the line?" Hogan said Thursday. "Some of this is our history. We could get into an hours-long discussion about what we should or shouldn't do, but I think that it's getting to the point it's gone too far."
http://news.yahoo.com/latest-south-carolina-gov-sign-bill-removing-flag-143121535.html
Last edited by Sixstrings on Thu 09 Jul 2015, 16:15:09, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Unread postby Tanada » Thu 09 Jul 2015, 16:06:57

Instead of worrying about fixing the infrastructure and hiring more police and firefighters the city of Memphis has decided to waste money this way,

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')EMPHIS, Tenn. — On Tuesday evening the Memphis City Council unanimously passed a resolution to remove Nathan Bedford Forrest’s remains from under his statue in the Health Sciences Park on Union Avenue. However, there is still a long road ahead before the remains would be moved to a new location. According to the city council’s attorney, Chancery Court would also have to sign off on the removal of the remains and the family of Forrest would be involved in the decision as well.

The removal of the statue of Nathan Bedford Forrest is a separate issue. The removal of the statue has been proposed as an ordinance before the council which will have to be read before the council three times before it can be approved. From there it will be presented to the Tennessee Historic Commission but there is no timeline for when they will make a decision. The next time the commission is scheduled to meet is in October.

On Tuesday officials with Elmwood Cemetery said they would be willing to help with the moving of Forrest’s and his wife’s remains to the cemetery in Memphis but said they did not want to become the new home of the statue.
http://wreg.com/2015/07/07/statue-debate-heats-up-as-city-council-gets-set-to-vote/

They went ahead and had a vote, the council moved unanimously to proceed wasting money.
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To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Unread postby Sixstrings » Thu 09 Jul 2015, 21:16:41

Some historical perspective youtubes, if anyone's interested:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]Shelby Foote on the Confederate Flag
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9J8P6WfS7w&list=PLFHg4E2nM8LwnulGFIr6rhqEHZz3xZozi


This is interesting, I never knew about this:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]Indian Warriors: The Untold Story of the Civil War

Ely Parker, who served as Ulysses S. Grant's military secretary and a Union Civil War general - Stand Watie, a Cherokee leader who sided with the Confederacy and became a Confederate general - Henry Berry Lowery, who helped his tribe survive starvation at the end of the war by stealing food and goods from wealthy Southern planters, which he shared with both Whites and Indians

An interesting endnote to the documentary is that although Native Americans were used by both the Union and the Confederacy during the war, afterwards they were seen, not as allies, but as obstacles to progress.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSjMOJ1jets


There are actually two children of civil war veterans, still living:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]Children of U.S. Civil War Vets Reminisce About Fathers

Two children of U.S. Civil War veterans reminisce about their fathers' war experience for this Veterans Day, 2014. Ninety-two-year-old Iris Lee Gay Jordan and 93-year-old Fred Upham were born very late in their fathers' lives, but both have vivid memories of stories about the war. Fred's father even met Abraham Lincoln after his release from a POW facility and bared his battle wounds for the president to see.

The children of U.S. Civil War veterans still walk among us.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UCRBZ-qlWM


Veterans from both sides met at the gettysburg reunion, and hugged:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]GETTYSBURG Reunion, 1913
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yt7qvuHSg6U


And our greatest American hero, next to George Washington:

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(I've guess I've said all there is to say. They're gonna exhume the remains nathan bedford forest -- and his wife -- in memphis.

All I can say is just that my understanding of the civil war, is how you see it presented in Ken Burns' old acclaimed PBS series "The Civil War." And now everyone is screaming something different, on tv, and I'm just a bit lost.)
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Sat 11 Jul 2015, 04:46:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'L')iberals are now proposing tearing down the Jefferson memorial in Washington DC because Jefferson was a slave-owner. Other liberals are proposing that the names of Washington State and Washington DC are racist and offensive, because George Washington was a slaveholder.

Personally, I hope liberals succeed in getting the name of Washington DC changed. And I've got the perfect replacement.

Lets re-name Washington DC as OBAMAVILLE to honor President Obama!

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Instead of honoring that nasty old slaveholder George Washington, lets change the name of Washington DC to "Obamaville"!

Well Plant, stupid people say stupid things to be the center of attention for a moment, and they can always be found on the internet. :-D
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Sat 11 Jul 2015, 04:50:57

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'C')ivil rights is now a "super-right" and is more important than freedom of speech or civil liberties.


Here's the thing though -- the right to not be offended is actually not a civil right.

That's a darn shame considering how often you're offended.
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