[hvacman]

Pete,

In the Humboldt Nation, you should ride a Dolbeer steam donkey logging engine to get your wood. The PTO IS the drive -
Don't think it will run on weed, though. That would be a DolPOT toking engine....

Hey, ho, away we go, donkey riding donkey riding....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_donkey

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('hvacman', 'P')ete,

In the Humboldt Nation, you should ride a Dolbeer steam donkey logging engine to get your wood. The PTO IS the drive -
Don't think it will run on weed, though. That would be a DolPOT toking engine....

Hey, ho, away we go, donkey riding donkey riding....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_donkey

[Pops]

If you ever get a chance to pick up the book "river runs through it" there is a good short story about logging in the early 20th.

[Lore]

Most of Michigan was clear cut with hand saws, oxen and steam trains. Not a skinny lumberjack in the bunch.

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', 'M')ost of Michigan was clear cut with hand saws, oxen and steam trains. Not a skinny lumberjack in the bunch.

[Shaved Monkey]

Subtropics ;no heating required,quite a few gum trees dropping branches and twigs daily,should keep the rocket stove stoked for ever.
Im not too concerned about PW here.

[Lore]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', 'M')ost of Michigan was clear cut with hand saws, oxen and steam trains. Not a skinny lumberjack in the bunch.

[copious.abundance]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DesuMaiden', 'I')'m 25 years old, and I recently realized that the economy of the world will head towards an irreversible collapse within the next 5 years. Industrial civilization is soon going to be doomed. By my 30s, the end of industrial civilization is within sight.

[DesuMaiden]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('copious.abundance', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DesuMaiden', 'I')'m 25 years old, and I recently realized that the economy of the world will head towards an irreversible collapse within the next 5 years. Industrial civilization is soon going to be doomed. By my 30s, the end of industrial civilization is within sight.

[copious.abundance]

A doomer porn video is not proof of a future event. I could show you videos explaining how technological nirvana is going to arrive in 5 years, which would counter your claim, but just like your video, it would just be a prediction. Neither of us could be proven right until we wait the 5 years. If you are certain the world economy is going to collapse in 5 years, you should have no problem betting a large sum of money on that prediction.

So, put your money where your mouth is.

[Gorm]

back in the days forests were at their biggest risk when they were cleared for agriculture or when people wanted ships. Huge navys has been built and destroyed over the ages. Then forests dissaperd fast. Regarding for heating.. well, that takes time and will be less of a problem if there is a die-off. And global warming do mean we are using way less energy on heating were I live. Our houses are on one hand bigger nowdays, but on the other they are build to withstand serious cold (not so much in the usa I understand?)

Here in sweden there is recearch in turningn trees into ethanol, for fuel. We HAVE huge, well tended, forests, if they succed... well... then we have lots of fuel in a world that will be searcing for fuel. Thats not entierly a blessing. Guess we will have more "open areas".

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', '
')
I was being a little sarcastic there.

You could say the same for most people back in those days. My cousin and I were at a town hall a few years back with our wives for a quilt show that was taking place in a small village that was founded as a lumber camp . Scattered across the walls were old photos of the men who cut down the mighty Northern pine in them there old days. We remarked how they were all falling out of their trousers. A far cry from the portly fat cat lumber barons who's portraits are hanging up in the museum in Grand Rapids, MI.

[Observerbrb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('copious.abundance', 'A') doomer porn video is not proof of a future event. I could show you videos explaining how technological nirvana is going to arrive in 5 years, which would counter your claim, but just like your video, it would just be a prediction. Neither of us could be proven right until we wait the 5 years. If you are certain the world economy is going to collapse in 5 years, you should have no problem betting a large sum of money on that prediction.

So, put your money where your mouth is.

[KaiserJeep]

Desu, remember that most of the things you read on the Internet are not true, and a great many are distorted deliberately by someone with an agenda. If you are a student of History, for example, read and compare the history of any particular incident anywhere with actual History textbooks. Not only will you find multiple inconsistent versions online, but none will be the same as the hardcopy version. Hardcopy history is peer-reviewed, and if you select history texts with multiple editions, you can come pretty close to understanding what happened - although it's worth understanding that all stories change as they are retold. But no material changes faster or is as inaccurate as what you find online. Someone who only reads online sources is the most ignorant person in any room.

[Revi]

I think a half a cord per acre is the amount that a northern forest grows.

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', 'I') think a half a cord per acre is the amount that a northern forest grows.

[GHung]

Again we have predictions of the eminant 'collapse of civilization', and following rebuttles. Neither consider that our civilization is in the process of collapsing now. Just hard to see in real time. We've been robbing Peter to pay the costs of Paul's civilization for decades. It's clear that we are well into the age of too many claims on too few resources, where quantity trumps quality in everything from manufactured goods to cultural output (entertainment, 'news', our ongoing commentary and evaluation of all things; our overall situational awareness). Peak distraction and negligence. Collapse is a fractile process; not a moment in time. Welcome to your collapse; an orgy of consumption where everyone came.

[frankthetank]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', 'M')uch of the worlds forests were cut down with hand tools and hauled away with oxen or horses, so the we need oil to cut it argument doesn't hold up. Before WW2 when chain saws were invented the standard on a pulp lumbering operation was a cord a day per man using two man crosscut saws and axes.
Hardwood forest in the north produce about one cord per acre per year on a sustainable basis. The problem becomes that there are just not enough acres to supply the present population. Sure you can heat all the houses in the rural areas surrounded by forest but there isn't enough extra to send to the cities and suburbs to supply them. The trees in the city parks and around the suburban houses will not last more then a year. Then the forests will belong to those that can defend them from thievery.