And that is just another outdoor grow on the Van Duzer.
You should see the meth scene around here. Yikes. LOL
PeakOil is You
Total Self-Sufficiency is a Misguided Ideal
Re: Total Self-Sufficiency is a Misguided Ideal
by careinke » Sat 15 Mar 2014, 04:45:19
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'O')kay Loki, that is filthy. I will grant you that. But take a look at this:
And that is just another outdoor grow on the Van Duzer.
You should see the meth scene around here. Yikes. LOL
And that is just another outdoor grow on the Van Duzer.
You should see the meth scene around here. Yikes. LOL
They should hire permaculturists to design their grow sites. I could do up one that would regenerate the soil and improve the local ecology while still growing great natural weed.
Cliff (Start a rEVOLution, grow a garden)
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careinke - Volunteer
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Re: Total Self-Sufficiency is a Misguided Ideal
by Newfie » Sat 15 Mar 2014, 08:19:09
"STEEL bottle caps"?
Interesting assumption. I think it points to the bias you have in your vision. I believe you are heavily editing to fit your world view. Please don't take that as an accusation, but as an observation pointing to a clue. Please reread my post with an open mind, perhaps in a day or three.
I never said STEEL, nor did it even cross my mind. They are all PLASTIC, which floats, all headed to the sea and the gyres where they will float, out of HUMAN sight, doing maximum harm, presenting themselves as edible objects to smaller and small life forms as the slowly disintegrate.
Thinking back on YOUR posts I am see perhaps where the difficulty arises. You appear to be focused on VISIBLE trash whereas others are thinking more of TOTAL trash.
Out of sight is NOT out of mind or ecology.
NYC moves dumping waste out from 12 miles to 106.
http://www.nytimes.com/1992/06/29/nyreg ... ludge.html
We'll they finally stopped. Now they ship it to the country, in other states.
http://nyc.sierraclub.org/2012/08/new-y ... it-all-go/
Dc still dumping human waste directly into Potomac and thus Chesapeake.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/tra ... story.html
Here is an overview
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_debris
Interesting assumption. I think it points to the bias you have in your vision. I believe you are heavily editing to fit your world view. Please don't take that as an accusation, but as an observation pointing to a clue. Please reread my post with an open mind, perhaps in a day or three.
I never said STEEL, nor did it even cross my mind. They are all PLASTIC, which floats, all headed to the sea and the gyres where they will float, out of HUMAN sight, doing maximum harm, presenting themselves as edible objects to smaller and small life forms as the slowly disintegrate.
Thinking back on YOUR posts I am see perhaps where the difficulty arises. You appear to be focused on VISIBLE trash whereas others are thinking more of TOTAL trash.
Out of sight is NOT out of mind or ecology.
NYC moves dumping waste out from 12 miles to 106.
http://www.nytimes.com/1992/06/29/nyreg ... ludge.html
We'll they finally stopped. Now they ship it to the country, in other states.
http://nyc.sierraclub.org/2012/08/new-y ... it-all-go/
Dc still dumping human waste directly into Potomac and thus Chesapeake.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/tra ... story.html
Here is an overview
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_debris
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Re: Total Self-Sufficiency is a Misguided Ideal
by Pops » Sun 16 Mar 2014, 10:21:11
The funny thing about this conversation is that it misses the whole point of the article, which is not so much city vs country or even making vs buying but social vs antisocial.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')e’ve built an economy where we need no one else; with a credit card, you can harvest the world’s bounty from the privacy of your room. And we’ve built a culture much the same — the dream houses those architects build, needless to say, come with a plasma screen in every room. As long as we can go on earning good money in our own tiny niche, we don’t need a helping hand from a soul . . .
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')e’ve built an economy where we need no one else; with a credit card, you can harvest the world’s bounty from the privacy of your room. And we’ve built a culture much the same — the dream houses those architects build, needless to say, come with a plasma screen in every room. As long as we can go on earning good money in our own tiny niche, we don’t need a helping hand from a soul . . .
Mckibben lives in Ripton, Vermont, a town with a population of 588. Not sure why one would think he is advocating city life. He is the modern self-sufficiency paradox, he sends off a manuscript and gets back a check and buys what he wants, exactly as described in that passage. He definitely has insight into the modern earning/buying lifestyle because he is a great example.
The point is community.
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
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Pops - Elite
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Re: Total Self-Sufficiency is a Misguided Ideal
by basil_hayden » Sun 16 Mar 2014, 14:52:34
Mmmmmm, Kale.
That's the way I figured it, pstarr.
If things go well I live in the country and used a bit more fuel.
If things don't go well, I live in the country.
That's the way I figured it, pstarr.
If things go well I live in the country and used a bit more fuel.
If things don't go well, I live in the country.
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basil_hayden - Heavy Crude
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Re: Total Self-Sufficiency is a Misguided Ideal
by Loki » Sun 16 Mar 2014, 15:45:34
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'T')he funny thing about this conversation is that it misses the whole point of the article, which is not so much city vs country or even making vs buying but social vs antisocial.
To be fair, the OP steered the conversation in the direction of city vs. country. Plus the COC requires that we steer off topic after page one.
I didn't even notice that article was written by McKibben. Upon rereading it, I still don't understand what exactly the point of his screed is, aside from “we need more community.” The number of people who are actually devoted to the individualistic self-sufficiency back-to-the-land model he's positing is infinitesimally small. They're clearly not at the root of the problems of hyperindividualism and destruction of local community. Strawman.
When you look at what people who are interested in self-sufficiency / DIY are actually doing, it almost always involves strengthening of community. Fruit tree clubs, knitting clubs, canning classes, DIY shops and neighborhood non-profit tool rentals, etc. All of the organic farmers I know of regularly work with other farmers and neighbors, borrowing equipment, exchanging advice, etc. Self-sufficiency is a misleading term, never really liked it myself, but I'd venture to guess that those who go down that rabbit hole end up greatly increasing their community ties. I know I did.
Then there's this idiotic passage:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')ut if you believe in many of the (entirely plausible) horror stories about what’s to come — peak oil, climate change — then the world ends with you standing shotgun in hand above your vegetable patch, protecting your carrots from the poaching urban horde.
And what will we small commercial farmers do when the “poaching urban hordes” come to ravage our “vegetable patch”? Guess there will be more of us with shotguns than just the mythical lone self-sufficiency survivor would have on hand, though McKibben and other farmers market customers aren't likely to be among our number. What exactly is his point, again?
And this dumb one:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'O')r consider energy. Since the 1970s, a particular breed of noble ex-hippie has been building “off-the-grid” homes, often relying on solar panels. This has been important work — they’ve figured out many of the techniques and technologies that we desperately need to get free of our climate change predicament. But the most exciting new gadget is a home-scale inverter, one that allows you to send the power your rooftop generates down the line instead of down into the basement. Where the isolated system has a stack of batteries, the grid-tied solar panel uses the whole region’s electric system as its battery
Sure, grid-tied systems work great. Until they don't. Assuming his “entirely plausible horror story about what's to come,” why on earth would you want to be 100% dependent on the grid? Having a battery-based solar electric system doesn't make one a “pathological” individualist, as he insinuates. It makes perfectly good sense for some of us, not so much for others. What exactly is his point, again?
I like McKibben, but this article was a big fat stinker. He's done good work and I don't want to knock him too much, but there's certainly an element of truth to your point, Pops, about him sending off some electrons, getting a check in the mail, and buying what he wants. Sounds disconnected to me. He should start a garden. And buy a shotgun
A garden will make your rations go further.
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Loki - Expert
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Kim-chi too.
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