[careinke]

It's only been a week, what if the power was out for a year? You can have the city, I like where I am.

[Quinny]

There is a big difference between a 'disaster' scenario where the rest of the country isn't affected and one where everyone's dealing with their own problems. Being a world financial centre following economic collapse that causes massive problems in 'producing' areas will be a very different story.

Uh Uh - I just said that and I live in England

[Tanada]

I picked the third way and now live in a village of about 1500 people surrounded by farmland. This gives a nice mix of skills in a collapse situation but also the modern conveniences of telecommunication and big box stores not that far away in the University town just down the road a piece.

[Cloud9]

I don't think we are getting the full story of how well the recovery is going. It is a bit early to call this one.

[Pops]

I also think Sandy is not the best analogy. It hit the economic center of the world a week before a hotly contested national election in which the role of government's is the central topic and within short memory of an utterly failed disaster response by a previous administration.
Unlimited funds isn't the same as resilience.

Still, I agree that walking to the corner to flirt with the boulangére is easier in the city than in the 'burbs. But that's today. If you are low income and lost in the sprawl today, you have a hard time getting around because the world is designed for Zoom-Zoom, not Shanks Mare. In the future, there will be resources within walking/biking/token distance for 'burbanites too even if it's just a garage converted into a bodega two 'sacs over.

"The end of the world as we know it" doesn't literally mean "the end of the world" otherwise you wouldn't say "as we know it".

[Don35]

How does food and water get to the city if there is no fuel or power? I have food and water in abundance for years on my farm.

[AgentR11]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Narz', 'W')hile NJ residents dealt with rationing & waited in 3-4 hour gas lines (often recieving no gas after stations ran out) and suffered electricity outages that still continue is some place Manhattan has been back up & running for days.

[Newfie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cloud9', 'I') don't think we are getting the full story of how well the recovery is going. It is a bit early to call this one.

[dolanbaker]

Wait 'till the Discovery channel of someone releases the "docu-soap" in a few months.

[Narz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Don35', 'H')ow does food and water get to the city if there is no fuel or power?

[kublikhan]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'I') also think Sandy is not the best analogy.

[anador]

from an earlier post on this topic:

"Part of the problem about talking about "Cities" rather than "Urban Places" is that it tends to confuse some peoples' understanding of the Topic.

I think its most useful to talk about urban places rather than cities. A city has an arbitrary implication of size and scope which is different from person to person. Indeed many people here that live in the suburbs consider themselves to live in a "city" even though it inst a particularly urban place: no mixed uses, single family single use zoning, auto dependency, etc.. Furthermore those that describe themselves as living in a rural village, may actually be living in an "urban place": shops close-by,relatively close together houses, mixed uses, etc...

My point is merely that urbanity is more important than the concept of city, especially in regards to power-down.

Part of the problem that Mumford saw occurring in the development of the suburbs was the distortion of what living in a city meant, it had once been very black and white; in the city- in the country. He saw the beginnings of the city centers being spaced out and De-urbanized, while the countryside developed and De-ruralized. The result was not "Garden Cities" the Utopian vision that Mumford, and Ebenezer Howard thought would occur, but Sprawl, the devilish waste-place we have been left with.

Bringing it back....

Humans have adapted to live in urban settlements for many dozens of millennia. Even non city building nomads establish mobile camps that have alot in common with city life: close proximity of non-related individuals, entertainment, work, all in close proximity. Urbanity pre-dates the city. Humanity is a social creature and meant to live in urban organizations. Even if this is a village of 100 or a moving hunting tribe of 50, the kinship of society is what urban organizations create.

After every major disaster, depredation, or war, people have always re-grouped, that is how society goes on.

Urban Places will always be a part of our future, because they are part of us, solitary confinement is a punishment to people.

The cities we will inhabit will be smaller, more compact, better defended.

There will always be people living where the major cities are, even if they are ruins, they occupy the most important transportation and resource nodes on the landscape (those founded before the 20TH C that is)

Rome and Alexandria both were depopulated for centuries, both dipping far below the 10k mark, before they eventually adjusted to a new system and were resettled again.

There will be chaos in cities and their populations will rapidly decrease, but they will never be totally abandoned."

[dinopello]

Power went out here for about a week in residential areas after the Derecho this year. Our downtown streets had power before most of the surrounding residential areas and so everyone was walking to and gathering in the restaurants (AC/Beer and Food) and it was actually kind of nice. It was hot as hell in your house so people wanted to be outside in any case.

The most disruptive thing in the region was the lack of traffic signals for those that did need to drive. They were out for 2-3 days all over. A 15 minute car trip turned into a 2 hour, stress-filled ordeal with observation of accidents everywhere. I did one of these trip to see my mom at her assisted living place and that was the last car trip I took for a week. Of course cable and internet was out but the real strange thing for some was phone and cell service were out for several days (including 911 for a time). That really made people feel like they were back in the stone age (you couldn't call and see how someone was doing).

[dinopello]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('anador', 'I') think its most useful to talk about urban places rather than cities. A city has an arbitrary implication of size and scope which is different from person to person. Indeed many people here that live in the suburbs consider themselves to live in a "city" even though it inst a particularly urban place: no mixed uses, single family single use zoning, auto dependency, etc.. Furthermore those that describe themselves as living in a rural village, may actually be living in an "urban place": shops close-by,relatively close together houses, mixed uses, etc...

[Narz]

kublikhan, that was an interesting article. Thanks. It just strengthens my view that cities are a superior way to live than suburbs though. Hopefully in the future we will take better care of our cities.

I remember reading a right-wing slam of Obama claiming he wants to rebuild the strength of our cities (God forbid! ) at the expense of the suburbs. The subtext was probably racism as usual (from the right-wing).

[Newfie]

Make up your own mind.

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/speci ... _2011.html

I live in one of the little "oasis" surrounded by red.

[kublikhan]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'T')he article is hopelessly outdated.

[kublikhan]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', ' ')Cities don't need help. (Maybe poor folk do.) Gentrification is the driving force behind urban, even-suburban development today. It started in the big Eastern Cities back in the 1980's especially New York in Soho then Tribeca, and continued to all the rust-belt cities and the Northwest. My wife returns periodically to her beat-up rusted Western PA ex-coal/steel town. They now have coffee shops and fine restaurants. Finally. Yeah.

[kublikhan]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'W')hat should be troubling to the white/racist/republican crowd is that poor folks are being driven out of the core cities, further into the older suburbs, closer and closer to the White-Flight Zone. Now there is a recipe for, you know, a 'tense situation.' Am I glad I live behind the Redwood Curtain.