[SeaGypsy]

I have strong doubt that the British system or NZ are as bad as some have portrayed here, but nothing to back this up. Being able to sue for multi millions over a coffee scalding by an overworked nurse is an American syndrome I am very glad not to have here in Oz.

We have long (2 year-ish) waits for 'voluntary' treatments like hip replacements, for non private patients, but you will eventually get them done and it won't cost you your house. Asset tests for safety net medicare are near $300k for an individual and over $500k for an average family, before copayment is mandatory. Income tests are complex but you can own a nice home and earn $55k+ and not have to have any private insurance.

A personal example of our system.

My wife had a traumatic Cesarean section in the Philippines last year, which led to my having to pay a loan shark off and to her developing prolonged post natal depression. 5 months later the idiot government there released our new daughter's birth certificate. 2 weeks later I had her Aus citizenship and another week her Aus passport. I flew over there, collected the family and brought them back here.

On the night of her arrival (on a preliminary spouse visa) she was seen by the top psychiatrists (x3) and put on a support program with daily home visits and medical backup. A week later she was hospitalized for a week, in a private room in the cities top psych hospital. Released with every support imaginable, daily nurse visits, weekly psychiatric checks, family support and carer counselling for me.

Because of our difficulty she was granted an exemption from the normal 2 year waiting period for social security payments and began getting safety net payments. All of this on a technically temporary visa.

I have barely used the medical system here in my 3 decades living in Oz, paying my 1.5% in years where I earned over $50k (adjusted).
In the first month my wife and I received over $15k in support and treatments for her depression. If either of us call for help, the professionals are at our door within 2 hours. In an emergency they come in 5 minutes.

Without a doubt this system saved our marriage and quite possibly my wife's life; perhaps our children's also. My employers gave me 6 months leave with no notice at all, to assist my wife in recovery. I was given carer payments to help us get through financially. One agency paid 6 weeks of our rent on top of this. Another paid for full time child care for 3 months.

Now of course, some Romneyites are likely to say it would be better if we were bankrupted and/ or my wife and kids out the 3rd story window. Personally I have nothing but contempt for this attitude.
I am so grateful for the help we have had I can't express it in words.
I am now back at work, my wife is studying and beginning to work part time.

End result: happy productive family, willing to contribute to the society which has done so much for us.

What would have happened in the same circumstances if I had stayed in the US all those years ago? A disaster, from my understanding. Followed by total resentment and most likely my resorting to crime to get through.

As I said in a similar thread before/ those arguing against universal medical care are either rich (& selfish) or fools.

[Fishman]

"As I said in a similar thread before/ those arguing against universal medical care are either rich (& selfish) or fools."
Yep, not actually folks who think, pay bills or try to think and talk through a process. Sea, you have just described why the bill is collapsing at our Supreme Court. Arrogance

[Lore]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Fishman', '
')Yep, not actually folks who think, pay bills or try to think and talk through a process. Sea, you have just described why the bill is collapsing at our Supreme Court. Arrogance

[Satori]

"Yep, not actually folks who think, pay bills or try to think and talk through a process. Sea, you have just described why the bill is collapsing at our Supreme Court. Arrogance"


nice Fox News Talking points
how much are you paid to post on the net ????

let me see you "talk through" a hospital bill for a couple hundred thousand $$$

[AdTheNad]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'I') have strong doubt that the British system or NZ are as bad as some have portrayed here, but nothing to back this up. Being able to sue for multi millions over a coffee scalding by an overworked nurse is an American syndrome I am very glad not to have here in Oz.

[SeaGypsy]

Republicans should hound their reps to hell over this single issue. Disgusting is barely strong enough a word for this abominable projection of the ethics of selfishness and greed onto the masses. Hideous, foul beyond words.

[diemos]

"Do people who don't have insurance deserve medical care?"

As long as they agree to have themselves and all of their children irreversibly sterilized ... yes!

[Lore]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('diemos', '&')quot;Do people who don't have insurance deserve medical care?"

As long as they agree to have themselves and all of their children irreversibly sterilized ... yes!

[Pops]

I paid for insurance for 30 years, going into the recession I was forced to let it lapse, now I have a pre-existing condition and for all intents and purposes I'm uninsurable.

On another note, malpractice is a red herring. All the costs of malpractice, including defensive medicine, amount to only a couple of percent of the cost of healthcare. The US pays twice the percentage of GDP for medical care as other modern economies, approaching 20%, so "tort reform" would amount to a rounding error. In fact, I thought suing each other was the conservative alternate to regulation?

[Timo]

All valid points and questions, here. However, whether or not "Obamacare" passess the constitutionality test, the only question worth asking is what kind of culture do we want to be? On the one hand, the argument against universal healthcare seems to promote the recreation/devolution to a serf-society. On the other hand, we can culturaly evolve to a state where everyone truly is treated and respected equally under the law, where the expectations of everyone are the same, and ditto with benefits. Personally, i find the "haves v have nots" approach repulsive and demeaning to our entire country, and lowers the standing morals and ethics of who we are as a society. In my book, the constitutionality of universal health care is meaningless. Let's define the kind of society we want to live in, and make that society happen. The entire cultural rhetoric going on right now about the issue (and many, many others) is pushing us all back to the days before humanity could claim any sense of being civilized. The presence of laws and order are different from being civilized, btw.

[Lore]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'I') paid for insurance for 30 years, going into the recession I was forced to let it lapse, now I have a pre-existing condition and for all intents and purposes I'm uninsurable.

On another note, malpractice is a red herring. All the costs of malpractice, including defensive medicine, amount to only a couple of percent of the cost of healthcare. The US pays twice the percentage of GDP for medical care as other modern economies, approaching 20%, so "tort reform" would amount to a rounding error. In fact, I thought suing each other was the conservative alternate to regulation?

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'I') paid for insurance for 30 years, going into the recession I was forced to let it lapse, now I have a pre-existing condition and for all intents and purposes I'm uninsurable.

[Pops]

Thanks Plant, I wasn't complaining, much, LOL My drugs are only a couple hundred a month, lots aren't so lucky.

I was just pointing out one of the many flaws with the "for profit" healthcare system. The emphasis is on the profit side of course and the capitalist incentive as always is to provide as little service as possible (healthcare in this case ) for the greatest price. Folks like me who pay their dues for years but make the wrong move at the wrong time get hosed as a matter of course, it's part of the calculation, it puts us in to the profit category. Everyone knows that and everyone bets that it won't happen to them and a few invariably mistake their good luck for virtue.

The argument in a nutshell is should insurance companies decid who gets treatment based on their own profitability or should society decide based on what society thinks is right and ethical. Currently the capitalists are winning, having convinced enough of the gullible that society is corrupt and only profit is virtuous. No wonder Reagan is a minor god among the owners.

Pretty sad really, Obama proved to not only be not a progressive but more right wing than most republicans and lead the government to force people to buy insurance guaranteeing the corps a 20% Oh/P margin (although "wasteful" government insurance gets by on 3%).

All that was required was to remove the age limit on Medicare and a majority of society agreed:



http://www.medicareforall.org/pages/Cha ... ns_Support

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Timo', ' ')Personally, i find the "haves v have nots" approach repulsive and demeaning to our entire country, and lowers the standing morals and ethics of who we are as a society. In my book, the constitutionality of universal health care is meaningless. Let's define the kind of society we want to live in, and make that society happen.
....
The presence of laws and order are different from being civilized, btw.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'I') paid for insurance for 30 years, going into the recession I was forced to let it lapse, now I have a pre-existing condition and for all intents and purposes I'm uninsurable.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'J')ust hang in there a bit longer, Pops! We're all backing you up. Medicare eligibility starts at 65, or earlier if you have what the SS administration considers to be a disability.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '[')Even this one little thing, ending the pre-existing condition disqualification, Republicans have fought tooth and nail for decades.

[Cog]

I wouldn't be counting on Medicare five years from now. Or any other social service.

I will help to bury Pops if I am asked. Its the least I can do as a Libertarian.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', ' ')he can't get insurance all because you conservatives "hate Obama" so much.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'N')o, you can't eliminate the ban on pre-existing conditions unless either we all pay for universal care via a tax of some kind (Universal Medicare) or we all pay for universal care plus support the for profit insurance corps to boot (ACA).