[Sixstrings]

Looks like the universal healthcare law is going to be declared unconstitutional, the whole thing will be struck down.

Also in the news..

While on the Jay Leno show, Mitt Romney said something like "as long as someone has continuously kept insurance they should be able to get another policy;" what he's talking about there is stopping the pre-existing conditions deinials.

But Leno pressed him, what about those who aren't previously insured? (repeating his original question, what do we do about the uninsured which Romney had evaded)

Romney's answer:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '&')quot;Well, if they’re 45 years old, and they show up and they say, 'I want insurance because I’ve got a heart disease, it’s like, 'Hey guys, we can’t play the game like that,'" he told Leno. "You've got to get insurance when you’re well, and if you get ill, then you’re going to be covered."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/28/mitt-romney-health-care_n_1384991.html

[Fishman]

Sorry Six, not accurate. Federal community health groups across the country offer sliding scale health care. Emergency health care is federally mandated. Kids already have extensive healthcare with the CHIPS program. Not saying the present system is great, its a system of all care for some. The alternative is SOME care for all.
In England or Canada
folks with heart disease wait and wait for their surgery, will just have to die, too bad so sad.
Their breast and colon cancer death rates are much higher than ours. Try a little facts for a change Six. There is no perfect system, just alternatives

[vtsnowedin]

The system as it is now won't wait for you to get sick. It insists on you sending them all your money now. Some people might choose to not pay in advance and take the chance that their lifestyle might keep them from ever going to the hospital. If they get sick why should they have to pay more then the total of the insurance premiums they would have paid if they signed up on day one? looking at it another way, can a health nut that runs five miles a day pass the benefit he has earned on to his heirs or must he send it in to the medical insurance complex just like the over weight smoker living next door to him?

[WildRose]

I'm not sure exactly how your system works in the states, but I recall watching a documentary about it. Isn't it correct that sometimes people pay into an insurance program for years and years, only to be told, when they finally have to make a claim, that they aren't covered for "disease x" with their policy? What happens if you have an accident and are laid up from work for months, or you need treatment for cancer and can't work for months? In Canada, we do have to wait for procedures; for example, you could wait months for an MRI while an aggressive tumor grows in your abdomen. But, if you're hurt in a car accident or a work accident and have to go to Emergency and then be admitted to a hospital, at least you will be treated for your injuries promptly and at no cost, other than money you lose from not working. I don't know if it's correct that we have higher death rates from colon or breast cancer than you have in the states; one would have to do an all-encompassing study to determine that, because if a lot of your citizens don't have any insurance and can't get prompt treatment, then you'd think that segment of the population would drag down the cancer survival rates. And you know, we've had such a lot of conflict here about que jumping - preferred treatment for the wealthy and the well-connected. I don't know how much it goes on, but I don't doubt that it happens.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Fishman', 'S')orry Six, not accurate. Federal community health groups across the country offer sliding scale health care.

[rangerone314]

Answer to question: No! Fu*k 'em!

(Just trying to see things from the Republican perspective)

[Satori]

currently the median wage in the US is only $26,000

how in the hell does anyone afford health insurance on that pittance ??

my health insurance is your garden variety BlueCross/BlueShield
and it is app $9,000 a year
thankfully almost all this is paid by my employer

the health care system in this country is collapsing under its own weight
it is some of the most expensive in the world
and despite the ENORMOUS amount we spend
we still have tens of millions with no health insurance and inadequate care

here's what to expect
http://articles.businessinsider.com/201 ... e-spending

[Satori]

and lets not forget this inconvenient little fact about healthcare in the US

http://articles.cnn.com/2009-06-05/heal ... =PM:HEALTH

now up to 60% and growing

virtually EVERYONE in the middle class is one illness/accident away
from losing everything they have ever worked for

[rangerone314]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Satori', 'a')nd lets not forget this inconvenient little fact about healthcare in the US

http://articles.cnn.com/2009-06-05/heal ... =PM:HEALTH

now up to 60% and growing

virtually EVERYONE in the middle class is one illness/accident away
from losing everything they have ever worked for

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('WildRose', 'I')n Canada, we do have to wait for procedures; for example, you could wait months for an MRI while an aggressive tumor grows in your abdomen.

[rangerone314]

No problem, Six, politics in this country is about adherence to political doctrine (lib or con) no matter how ineffective in a particular situation (ie using a hammer on screws).

Its not about solving problems, its about getting re-elected by the dumb-ed down fools who only understand buzzwords and ideology.

Our political system is a victim of political entrophy---the eventual and inevitable degradation of a system into corruption and dysfunction.

[WildRose]

Sixstrings, we have MRI equipment in all of our hospitals and quite a few of the private imaging clinics that are popping up now. The reason we have to wait so long for an MRI scan is because generally, a person will see their family doctor for a problem first and will then be referred to a specialist, and that's what can take a really long time, getting in to see the specialist, who will then refer you for an MRI if it's deemed warranted. If you go to an emergency ward because of an accident, though, you will have access to all of the diagnostic imaging quite promptly because your situation would be deemed an emergency. One thing that will usually raise eyebrows in an emergency department is a history of weight loss - if you have abdominal pain and tell them you've lost 30 lbs. unintentionally in the last couple months, you'll get a CAT scan or MRI pretty fast. There's a certain amount of "squeaky wheel gets the grease" that goes on, especially if you're advocating for a loved one in the health care system.

[SeaGypsy]

You want a real medical system?:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicare_(Australia)
What is happening in the USA is sick. I was born there and this is one of the main reasons my US passport hasn't been renewed in 10 years.

[Fishman]

Six, for your information.
http://findahealthcenter.hrsa.gov/Search_HCC.aspx
Sea, you may have a solution there.
We have a simple solution already at hand, but the tort lawyers prevent such. Simply roll out Medicaid as those universal health care systems you propose, Six. Put your money where your mouth resides.
To be enrolled in the modified Medicaid you accept essentially no access to litigation (British system), no dialysis after age 65 (New Zealand), mammograms ONLY q 2 -3 years, only after age 50 and stopping at age 75 (British system), guiac cards ONLY for colon cancer screening (Canada), dramatically less access to high tech, subspecialists and meds ( all universal systems compared to US), minimal treatment of advanced cancers (British system). Why shucks, everyone gets covered, with SOME care.

Its pretty basic Six, three components of healthcare, access, cost, quality/technology. If you want everyone covered, you pay more or you lower quality/technology. If you're broke as a country (as we are) and you want everyone covered, expect to DRAMATICALLY lower qualty/technology. Sorry, still no unicorns out there as the president promised.

[Lore]

All the countries you mentioned also have a better level of health care, according to the last study by WHO, then here in the US. The problem is we spend more in the US, but get less for it.

No wonder fewer and fewer people from industrialized societies are looking to come to the United States.

[Satori]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/201 ... p-20k.html

hmmm

median income $26,000

medical costs for family of 4 $20,000

let me do the math
thinking
thinking
thinking...

OH CRAP

[Fishman]

Gas, I'm so glad your wait was short. In the medical literature you are called an N of 1. Your NHS is noted for its long waits, N of thousands. http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/ ... ime-target. Gas, I'm not knocking your healthcare system. I think its marvelous, I even wish we had that system here, but I am cognisant of its limitations, and document them. Now read a litle about medical litigation in the US vs England
Lore, you data is partially correct, in the US our outcome for some things are worse, agreed, but not for others, breast cancer and colon cancer outcomes are much better in the US. Did you read my post? The only thing preventing some form of universal healthcare in the US is tort lawyers. Republicans were even willing to compromise on the crap sandwich of a bill if significant tort reform had taken place. Now the bill goes down in flames, duh.

[ian807]

Explain to me again what "deserve" means? Maybe then I can can answer.